79 KZ400 Clutch / Tranny issues

treitz wrote:

...The transmission will not shift anymore...it shifted fine yesterday...put the cover, foot peg and shift lever on, and nothing.

Is it possible that my clutch is sticking in the engaged position? This seams likely because my clutch rod does not appear to move IN when I push on it. It also slides completely out which seams weird to me, but may be completely normal....

When the sprocket cover is off, it's normal for the push-rod to be easily pulled completely out.

Shifting fine until reinstalling the cover is evidence of something amiss in the actuator assembly, or mal-adjustment of the adjuster screw, or incorrect fitment of the cover.

Am doubtful that reinstalling the cover could break any clutch springs or other clutch basket parts.

Good Fortune!

Patton wrote:

treitz wrote:

...The transmission will not shift anymore...it shifted fine yesterday...put the cover, foot peg and shift lever on, and nothing.

Is it possible that my clutch is sticking in the engaged position? This seams likely because my clutch rod does not appear to move IN when I push on it. It also slides completely out which seams weird to me, but may be completely normal....

When the sprocket cover is off, it's normal for the push-rod to be easily pulled completely out.

Shifting fine until reinstalling the cover is evidence of something amiss in the actuator assembly, or mal-adjustment of the adjuster screw, or incorrect fitment of the cover.

Am doubtful that reinstalling the cover could break any clutch springs or other clutch basket parts.

Good Fortune!

Understood, but what about the fact that after removing the cover it still would not shift, whereas previously it would?

Series of events:

1. With cover off, shifted through gears, back to neutral

2. Installed cover, would not shift
(I do not remember if I pulled the clutch lever while it was installed or not but would assume I did previous to seeing if it would shift)

3. Removed cover, would not shift.

Another thing to note. When I have the cover installed and I pull on the clutch lever, if I have the cable adjusted TOO tight, even slightly too tight the clutch lever pops loose. This is the assembly with the ball bearings. Is this normal, or could that be a sign of one of the issues here?

I cannot get the clutch lever to have less than 1/4" of play before it pops loose. I should only have 2-3mm of play I believe.

The adjusting screw that sticks through the cover is out as far as it can. Does this need to be moved in so it is putting MORE pressure on the shift rod? Keeping it from popping loose.

treitz wrote:

...Understood, but what about the fact that after removing the cover it still would not shift, whereas previously it would?

Series of events:

1. With cover off, shifted through gears, back to neutral

2. Installed cover, would not shift...

3. Removed cover, would not shift.

...cover installed and I pull on the clutch lever, if I have the cable adjusted TOO tight, even slightly too tight the clutch lever pops loose. This is the assembly with the ball bearings. Is this normal, or could that be a sign of one of the issues here?

I cannot get the clutch lever to have less than 1/4" of play before it pops loose. I should only have 2-3mm of play I believe.

The adjusting screw that sticks through the cover is out as far as it can. Does this need to be moved in so it is putting MORE pressure on the shift rod? Keeping it from popping loose.

Any shifting issues before the cover was first removed?

Was cover removed to install a new clutch cable? Or was there something else that prompted removal?

The actuator assembly with the ball bearings should not pop loose. Perhaps it's worn out, or mis-assembled in its position inside the cover, or mal-adjusted.

The adjusting screw that sticks through the cover is out as far as it can. Does this need to be moved in so it is putting MORE pressure on the shift rod? Keeping it from popping loose. --- Might already be too much pressure.
Would turn the adjusting screw whichever way is required to seat the actuator against the push-rod, and then turn it the opposite direction 1/2 turn, and then tighten the lock-nut.

Good Fortune!

Thanks, I will give the actuator some attention tonight and see what happens.

Well the cover was off the bike when I got it. Once I installed the chain and put the actuator together I put it back on and took it back off because it popped loose as I mentioned before. This was when I shifted it through the gears and than put it back into neutral.

I thought I had it all working right so I went ahead and put the cover back on, adjusted the clutch cable so that it would NOT pop loose, put the shifter on and it wouldn't shift. Removed the cover again to see if I did something wrong, and still would not shift.

I will post a update later after I adjust the actuator and see if it helps. Don't know why it would.. but who knows.

Patton wrote:

...Might already be too much pressure.
Would turn the adjusting screw whichever way is required to seat the actuator against the push-rod, and then turn it the opposite direction 1/2 turn, and then tighten the lock-nut....

Result of some current research --- For the 1978 and on engines with the release mechanism on the left hand side, turn the screw in till it is loose, then turn it out till you can feel a resistance, and then 1/4 turn in again, and fasten the lock nut.

This is perhaps opposite of what was being done previously.
Won't hurt to try.

Good Fortune!

Patton wrote:

Patton wrote:

...Might already be too much pressure.
Would turn the adjusting screw whichever way is required to seat the actuator against the push-rod, and then turn it the opposite direction 1/2 turn, and then tighten the lock-nut....

Result of some current research --- For the 1978 and on engines with the release mechanism on the left hand side, turn the screw in till it is loose, then turn it out till you can feel a resistance, and then 1/4 turn in again, and fasten the lock nut.

This is perhaps opposite of what was being done previously.
Won't hurt to try.

Good Fortune!

Worth a try! Thanks!

A well-respected comprehensive site about KZ400/440:

Click > kz400.com/

Good Fortune!

Patton wrote:

A well-respected comprehensive site about KZ400/440:

Click > kz400.com/

Good Fortune!

I can't even tell you how many hours I have spent on that site.

Some things just require a humane response instead of a diagram:) . But yes, that site and the manual available on it have helped me immensely.

Verdict, I got it to shift into first again. Not sure what this means, but it's willingness to shift into first is entirely based on where in the rotation the engine is. For instance, won't shift into first, roll it forward 1 foot, shifts into first no problem.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

THAN, with engine running, shift into first, let out clutch and nothing happens. Which leads me to believe my initial feeling was correct. Clutch is stuck in the disengaged position.

Does this sound like a accurate assumption? Or does the transmission issue sound like it is a bigger deal and may be causing this?

treitz wrote:

Verdict, I got it to shift into first again. Not sure what this means, but it's willingness to shift into first is entirely based on where in the rotation the engine is. For instance, won't shift into first, roll it forward 1 foot, shifts into first no problem.

WHAT DOES THIS MEAN?

THAN, with engine running, shift into first, let out clutch and nothing happens. Which leads me to believe my initial feeling was correct. Clutch is stuck in the disengaged position.

Does this sound like a accurate assumption? Or does the transmission issue sound like it is a bigger deal and may be causing this?

won't shift into first, roll it forward 1 foot, shifts into first no problem. ---
Congrats on getting shifted into first.
I could be mistaken, but don't see any red flags.

shift into first, let out clutch and nothing happens. Which leads me to believe my initial feeling was correct. Clutch is stuck in the disengaged position.
Does this sound like a accurate assumption?---
As initially suggested, am still thinking a properly performed clutch push-rod adjustment may resolve the problem.

If the gap adjustment screw is being turned in the wrong directions during the adjustment process, and/or the actuator is incorrectly assembled or incorrectly installed, the push rod may have pressure being applied against it when the engine cover (sprocket cover) is tightened into position, and thereby disallow clutch engagement, which could explain why nothing happens when letting out the clutch and your feeling that the clutch is stuck in the disengaged position.

This diagnosis would also be consistent with the actuator "popping apart" upon squeezing the handlebar clutch lever.

Might be mistaken, but seem to recall that the reported adjustment process as performed is inconsistent with procedure noted in the KZ400 website, as quoted earlier in this thread.

Would double-check to confirm and assure that the clutch push-rod adjustment procedure for the particular model at hand is being correctly performed.

Could also experiment by loosening the sprocket cover (to disable the actuator function) and see whether the clutch is then engaged while in first gear (with no pressure being exerted against the push rod).

Good Fortune!

"If the gap adjustment screw is being turned in the wrong directions during the adjustment process, and/or the actuator is incorrectly assembled or incorrectly installed, the push rod may have pressure being applied against it when the engine cover (sprocket cover) is tightened into position, and thereby disallow clutch engagement, which could explain why nothing happens when letting out the clutch and your feeling that the clutch is stuck in the disengaged position."

You know I think you may be right. I adjusted the actuator based on the instruction you posted on here, and than thought about it after the fact. Those instructions said to tighten it until you feel pressure and than tighten it another 1/4 turn which would be pushing the push rod 1/4 turn.

The book says to tighten it until there is contact and than LOOSEN it 1/4 turn so that there is a gap between the actuator and the push rod.

I will have to adjust that tonight and see what happens.

Only concern is that if this is true, the clutch would be very slight disengaged when the clutch lever released. I could be wrong, but at that point shouldn't it be doing something? Idle dropping, starting to roll forward?

treitz wrote:

"If the gap adjustment screw is being turned in the wrong directions during the adjustment process, and/or the actuator is incorrectly assembled or incorrectly installed, the push rod may have pressure being applied against it when the engine cover (sprocket cover) is tightened into position, and thereby disallow clutch engagement, which could explain why nothing happens when letting out the clutch and your feeling that the clutch is stuck in the disengaged position."

You know I think you may be right. I adjusted the actuator based on the instruction you posted on here, and than thought about it after the fact. Those instructions said to tighten it until you feel pressure and than tighten it another 1/4 turn which would be pushing the push rod 1/4 turn.

The book says to tighten it until there is contact and than LOOSEN it 1/4 turn so that there is a gap between the actuator and the push rod.

I will have to adjust that tonight and see what happens.

Only concern is that if this is true, the clutch would be very slight disengaged when the clutch lever released. I could be wrong, but at that point shouldn't it be doing something? Idle dropping, starting to roll forward?

With the clutch lever released (not being squeezed), the clutch is supposed to be fully engaged (plates pressed tightly together).
If the gap isn't there, the plates can't fully press together, which causes the clutch to "slip."

With the clutch lever squeezed, the clutch plates are supposed to be separated. When squeezed, the gap disappears and the push-rod is pressed inward to press the plates apart, overcoming the spring pressure, and thereby disengaging the clutch.

Too much gap wastes clutch lever movement as too much lever travel is expended to simply close the gap before starting pressure against the push-rod. Whereby the clutch may only partly disengage when the lever is fully squeezed, and produce the sensation of a "sticky" or "grabby" clutch.

Way too much gap may waste all the clutch lever movement, as all the lever travel is expended to simply close the gap, with no movement left to exert pressure against the push-rod.

No gap or too little gap may over-stress the actuator assembly when the clutch lever is squeezed and cause the actuator assembly to pop apart.

It's important to know exactly how to set the required gap.
The general rule is to lightly close the gap, then back off ¼~½ turn.
On some models the gap is closed by turning the adjustment screw clockwise. But on other models the gap is closed by turning the adjustment screw counter-clockwise.

Mistaking which direction to turn the adjustment screw could for example start with the gap wide open instead of lightly seated. :pinch:

Here's a simplified illustration to help visualize what is supposed to happen as the mechanisms engage and disengage the clutch.

Good Fortune!

[Click on image to enlarge the view.]