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sleeve installation 02 Jun 2010 19:47 #372962

  • Kawboy74
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Hello all. I am at the point where I am ready to install my sleeves into my cylinder and was wondering if putting them in the freezer overnight will downsize them enough to allow easy insertion? I made sure the bores are super clean and did not want to use a light coating of grease on them as I was afraid of hydraulic lock once the rim got close to the top of the block. I also don't feel too comfortable putting the cylinder in the oven even if only a low temperature. Any advice from those who have undertaken this job would be greatly appreciated. David
p.s. pictures to come soon of the 900 as engine bottom end is together and in the newly painted frame.:P
1974 Z1A As original as I could get it
'88 ZX750R braided lines, mostly original
KZ1000 project on the bench
Burlington,Ontario,Canada

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sleeve installation 02 Jun 2010 19:51 #372966

  • timebomb33
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i freeze new sleeves and then heat up the block with a propane torch then support the block underneath and install the sleeves also i put very heavy weights on top of the sleeves and let the expand into each other over night.
1973 z1 2-1974z1-a,2-1975z1-b dragbikes1015cc+1393cc, 1977kz1000,1978kz1000,1981kz1000j, 1997 zx-11, 2000 z12r,1428turbo nitrous pro-mod and a shit load of parts thats all for now leader sask.,CANADA
I THINK MY POWERBAND BROKE

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sleeve installation 02 Jun 2010 19:56 #372970

  • Kawboy74
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Thanks Do they slide in relatively easy or is there some light force involved? I am afraid of getting them part way in and meeting resistance(boy does that sound familiar!):woohoo:
1974 Z1A As original as I could get it
'88 ZX750R braided lines, mostly original
KZ1000 project on the bench
Burlington,Ontario,Canada

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sleeve installation 02 Jun 2010 22:44 #373012

  • APE Jay
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Don't bother putting the sleeves in the freezer. It is not cold enough to shrink them, only makes them cold. You need dry ice or liquid nitrogen to make them shrink.

Just heat the block approx 350 degrees for 1 hour and drop the sleeves in. After they cool. put them in a press and seat them, then surface the block.

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sleeve installation 03 Jun 2010 04:36 #373037

  • larrycavan
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APE Jay wrote:

Don't bother putting the sleeves in the freezer. It is not cold enough to shrink them, only makes them cold. You need dry ice or liquid nitrogen to make them shrink.

Just heat the block approx 350 degrees for 1 hour and drop the sleeves in. After they cool. put them in a press and seat them, then surface the block.


Make CERTAIN you do that last step. I've seen them squeeze up out as the block cools. If you don't press them back down you're going to have head gasket issues ;)

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sleeve installation 03 Jun 2010 06:34 #373052

  • 531blackbanshee
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APE Jay wrote:

Don't bother putting the sleeves in the freezer. It is not cold enough to shrink them, only makes them cold. You need dry ice or liquid nitrogen to make them shrink.


sorry jay i can't let this one pass.
i can assure you that 45 minutes in a freezer will shrink a sleeve enough that after the cylinder has been heated for 45 minutes at 450 degrees that the sleeve will drop in with a chink sound(then cool in the press).this is with .005 thousandths press fit on a cylinder that was bored to .007 thousandths smaller than the sleeve then honed to get .005 thousnadths press.i do air and water cooled cylinders and have done thousands.

leon
skiatook,oklahoma 1980 z1r,1978 kz 1000 z1r x 3,
1976 kz 900 x 3
i make what i can,and save the rest!

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Last edit: by 531blackbanshee.

sleeve installation 04 Jun 2010 04:33 #373328

  • larrycavan
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531blackbanshee wrote:

APE Jay wrote:

Don't bother putting the sleeves in the freezer. It is not cold enough to shrink them, only makes them cold. You need dry ice or liquid nitrogen to make them shrink.


sorry jay i can't let this one pass.
i can assure you that 45 minutes in a freezer will shrink a sleeve enough that after the cylinder has been heated for 45 minutes at 450 degrees that the sleeve will drop in with a chink sound(then cool in the press).this is with .005 thousandths press fit on a cylinder that was bored to .007 thousandths smaller than the sleeve then honed to get .005 thousnadths press.i do air and water cooled cylinders and have done thousands.

leon


You don't need to cool the sleeve at all if you heat the block that much. A room temperature sleeve will drop right in just as easy.

I've had sleeves come loose from heating a block with an electric gun to remove a stuck dowel. It's the aluminum expanding, not the cast iron cooling that makes the difference :)

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sleeve installation 04 Jun 2010 05:00 #373334

  • T_Dub
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Here's some engineering to throw in. An 80mm hole in an aluminum block should expand by about 0.266mm when heated to 175*C from room temp. In contrast, a cast iron sleeve of the same size will shrink about 0.026mm when cooled to -5*C. This is assuming a room temp of 25*C.

0.266mm=0.01"
0.026mm=0.001"
-5*C=23*F
175*C=350*F
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-810cc
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sleeve installation 04 Jun 2010 05:04 #373335

  • otakar
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Now- Now- Boys, Play nice, or you can go to your rooms. :P
74 Z1-A stock
76 KZ-900 Totaly stock vice MAC pipe
77 KZ-1000A stock
78 Z1-R 100%MINT 500 original Mi.
78 Z1-R Yoshi 1103 kit stage 1 cams Yoshi pipe. Etc
79 KZ-1300 (1400)
80 KZ-1300
81 Scratch built GPz1150R
82 KZ1000

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sleeve installation 04 Jun 2010 07:10 #373358

  • Patton
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:unsure: Wonder why the FSMs are virtually silent regarding cylinder sleeves or the removal and replacement or possibility of renewal.

According to the FSM, a new cylinder block is the next step from max overbore.

Good Fortune! :)
1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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sleeve installation 04 Jun 2010 07:50 #373363

  • timebomb33
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because the o.e's aren't willing to try some of the crazy stuff that we are and able to do. by the way i do sleeve swaps alot especally the last couple of weeks. and all i ever use is a propane torch and freeze the sleeves it's always worked for me and yes when your done you should get the block decked.
1973 z1 2-1974z1-a,2-1975z1-b dragbikes1015cc+1393cc, 1977kz1000,1978kz1000,1981kz1000j, 1997 zx-11, 2000 z12r,1428turbo nitrous pro-mod and a shit load of parts thats all for now leader sask.,CANADA
I THINK MY POWERBAND BROKE

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sleeve installation 04 Jun 2010 08:14 #373372

  • zed1015
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I've done this loads of times now and all i do is put the cylinder barrel in the top shelf of the kitchen oven at 300deg and wait for the clank as the block slides down the old sleeves onto the shelf. Using some suitable gloves i lift out the old sleeves which are also hot and drop in the new ones which are just room temp.
I then set the cylinder with a wooden block under each end to keep the bottom of the sleeves clear to hang and with a weight on top of each sleeve i shut the oven door with the oven off and let it cool slowly.
Job done.

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