finally putting 810 motor back together

Bluemeanie wrote:

jordan wrote:

never checked rod/main bearings or piston deck height, but the valves looked untouched by the pistons. The bike always ran great. took it to the dragstrip one weekend, ran fine all week, i put wiped down teh clutch disks with emery cloth, put it all back together, rode it a while, then the next weekend it started ticking. checked the clutch immediately, but evetything looked perfect

So if I understand correctly, the noise stopped after you wiped down the clutch discs, then came back? If so I think you found the area of the noise.

no, i pulled the disks BEFORE the noise occured, i checked them as its the only internal work i had done right before the ticking. and yes gearhead i did have the head resurfaced, but why would it start doing it all of a sudden after over a year of running great?

and yes i have been using wiseco 810 head gaskets every time. its beginning to get annoying spending all the money for a new head gasket every time i put it together

kzz1p wrote:

Jordan

What is the piston deck height?

It's important to know how far the piston is down in the hole, while at top dead center. That could explain the wrist pin stuck in the piston.

Head gaskets compress over time, temp and pressure. The distance between the piston and head is decreased also.

This measurement is important for safety as well as perforomance.

Do you know what the head gasket thickness is (crushed or used head gasket thickness?)

jordan wrote:

Bluemeanie wrote:

jordan wrote:

never checked rod/main bearings or piston deck height, but the valves looked untouched by the pistons. The bike always ran great. took it to the dragstrip one weekend, ran fine all week, i put wiped down teh clutch disks with emery cloth, put it all back together, rode it a while, then the next weekend it started ticking. checked the clutch immediately, but evetything looked perfect

So if I understand correctly, the noise stopped after you wiped down the clutch discs, then came back? If so I think you found the area of the noise.

no, i pulled the disks BEFORE the noise occured, i checked them as its the only internal work i had done right before the ticking. and yes gearhead i did have the head resurfaced, but why would it start doing it all of a sudden after over a year of running great?

and yes i have been using wiseco 810 head gaskets every time. its beginning to get annoying spending all the money for a new head gasket every time i put it together

wonder if after a year of running the rods and mains now have enough clearence to allow the piston to extend just a little higher into the bore?.. I wouldn't think so but ya never know. Are you running the stock timing shain tensioner or a manual one?.. If the pin was stuck in the piston you might check the pin boss in that piston...doesn't take much play to make a big noise. also check that there isn't any galling on the little end of the rod. I know you probably checked it all very thoughouly already but... also I'm not sure what kind of cam chain slider/roller that motor had but possibly a guide isn't where it should be? my kz1000 had a broken slider (in the block) that I didn't see until I had it completely tore down.

cam chain tensioner was one of my first thoughts also, i have used 3 different stock automatic adjusters from other motors, but same results with all of them

jordan does sound like it's coming with every revolution or every second one what i mean is it in time with crank shaft rpm or with cam rotation.

sorry timebomb, its been quite a while since its been all together and couldnt really tell you. that is something i should have noted. i just assumed it was in the head, so changed all the components up top.

while if it sounds like it is not quite in phase with the engine rpm then your probably looking at valve train or cam chain related if it is in sync with engine rpm then it will be crankshaft related somehow have you found anything metalic in the oil or filter i always cut my filters apart after i have done the first oil change on a fresh engine to look for metalic particulate.if you didn't check you bearing surfaces or measure the clearances on the rod jornals and main journal's how do you know if the crank was good.

i would like to believe that it is not in the valvetrain as i have tried 2 different sets of top end stuff. If it was the cam chain, what could be wrong with it. is it possible for the cam chain to stretch?

Also, very important (dont know why i didnt metntion it before) I pulled the oil pan after putting it back together for the second time as i dropped a bolt down the cam chain tunnel. There were quite a few very very thin metal shaving pieces in the bottom end along with a valve shim. i immediately checked all the buckets, and all of them were there. the only thing i could think of was that the metal shavings were from a second shim that got ground up. also, i was very careful when building my motor but i put it together in my High school shop in which lots of kids have access to my stuff. The only explanation i have for the shims being there are that maybe some kids tried to sabotage my motor. I think i mentioned it in my build thread, but i pulled the head after i had it all torqued down because i found starburst wrappers in my spark plug holes, and wanted to make sure nothing else was in there.

Ok, I'm going to ask the retard question of the day....

Are you positive the sound is coming from the top end?

Reasoning, as my two mentors are aware of, had a weird squishing sound (squish in a vacuum chamber is the best way to describe) occurring where the sound appeared in the top end... Would have sworn it...

Well got me an automotive stethoscope, wholly molly what a difference, and followed it down to the oil pump/clutch area.

Basically the sound was traveling and being amplified up and to the valve cover top end via the timing chain galley where I thought it originally was being generated.

In swapping out the oil pump and installing new clutch plates and springs, the problem went away... Go figure!

Just a thought... Scope... $3 @ Harbor Freight Tools...

OMR

i will check again if it still ticks when its back together. when i checked the sound, i used a screwdriver, and put a rag in the exhaust to deaden the sound. it definately sounded like topend, and i made sure to check around the clutch and on the clutch cover.

Timing top idler, not loose or longer head on the nuts hitting the valve cover?

What about when rotating manually?
ignition plate 17mm nut... rotate slowly, do you feel it catching or does it make bump sound at certain points 180* out of each other....

when i pull down the big engine i had to replace the cam chain it was kinked and messed up real bad it may be coming from there roll the engine around by hand and watch your cam chain and look for tight spots or kinks, that can cause serious noises.