Building a engine for around 2K$

Old Man Rock wrote:

1075 plus piston kit ~ $600 + pending new / used.
Bore & hone $300-$400 ($80 a hole here in Az)
possibly new sleeves pending size piston selection ...
Camshafts pending used / new... $300-$500
Adjustable cam gears... $75 each = $150
Wedded crank to handle increased torque ~$200
All new timing components (chain, rubber, gears) $300 +
New gasket complete set $80

If above mentioned used, Head valves/seals/guides P&P.... ~ $600 +

As can be reviewed, this stuff adds up fast. All depends on what your desiring. New parts (recommended) but since you gave it a $2K setting, will require some used pieces such as the camshafts.

Now throw in the following for what good is the above if you only have POS carbs installed....
Carbs $700
electronic ignition $240 + pending model
Exhaust $500 +

Time to rape the kids college fund....

OMR

You have some way out of wack prices here. Bore and hone $120.00 all four holes.
Adjustable cam gears $49.00 ( we are the people who make them)
Complete head rebuild including guides, around $400.



To get the most bang for the $2000 would be our SSR1075 kit, which is pistons, cams, valve springs $986.00 kzzone.com/kits.html
Street hot rod cylinder head $995.00 kzzone.com/heads.html

Add the boring and you would be around $2100

I could suggest a motor that could run high 10's for just alittle more. No flash, no bling! Just plain and simple! I should say, providing your motor isn't totally wasted?

What makes bike go fast? MONEY!

Here is what i would do, for a low dollar motor that can run all day and night. My biggest worry would be the condition of the cylinders?

I would reuse the stock KZ pistons with new rings, add some bolt-in cams, a larryC ported head, bigger carbs and some gearing.

NOTE- I hope you already have a pipe and electric ignition.

$ 500.00 porting
$ 300.00 Cams
$ 50.00 Cam Chain
$ 200.00 650 style buckets
$ 200.00 Valve springs/ retainers
$ 200.00 Rings (?)
$ 600.00 Carbs (29's or 31's) new or used?
$ 100.00 Gasket set
$ 100.00 Coils
$ 125.00 Gearing
____________________
$ 2,375.00 + taxes, shipping, etc.

It will run on pump gas, ride it anywhere! The speed not bad for the price.

This would put you one step away from a bomb 1075(or something), next time.

You have some way out of whack prices here. Bore and hone $120.00 all four holes.
Adjustable cam gears $49.00 ( we are the people who make them)
Complete head rebuild including guides, around $400.

No, not really when you think about it...
As mentioned, here in Phoenix they want $80 a hole... If I have to ship it to APE for example, then I have shipping costs and Insurance so add what $80 plus...

Then throw into the mix you kind of forgot one little item to mention...
LC100 Bore and hone with piston purchase $120.00 otherwise $189 for all 4.... Still a good price compared to what going for here in Az....

As for the rebuild, you missed the valves, springs, guides, seals and P&P Jay.... Last time I checked at APE website, it was around $850 or so if I remember correctly so actually, I was being generous....
HW-40 Port and valve job 8-valve 850.00

You can find some smoking deals out there and depending if going new or used in your re-build it can be done close to the figure you have set for yourself, all depends on what you have set as a goal in Power.

OMR

Would this be a good set up for him?...Russ

cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MTC-BIG-BORE-CYL...fPartsQ5fAccessories

thats not too bad if the price doesnt go any higher ,although if youre just doing an 1197 id stick with stock block for better cooling

Old Man Rock wrote:

You have some way out of whack prices here. Bore and hone $120.00 all four holes.
Adjustable cam gears $49.00 ( we are the people who make them)
Complete head rebuild including guides, around $400.

As for the rebuild, you missed the valves, springs, guides, seals and P&P Jay.... Last time I checked at APE website, it was around $850 or so if I remember correctly so actually, I was being generous....
HW-40 Port and valve job 8-valve 850.00


OMR

This is the one I mentioned. Also we almost never have to replace KZ valves.;

Excellent power increase for small motors (up to 1075cc). This head uses the stock customer-supplied valves.

Includes
*Porting
*Competition Multi-angle Valve Job
*Cam Clearanced for APE K410 Cams.
*Bronze Valve Guides
*Racing Valve Springs
*Seals
*Assembled (not shimmed).

HW15 - $995.00

Old Man Rock wrote:

1075 plus piston kit ~ $600 + pending new / used.
Bore & hone $300-$400 ($80 a hole here in Az)
possibly new sleeves pending size piston selection ...
Camshafts pending used / new... $300-$500
Adjustable cam gears... $75 each = $150
Wedded crank to handle increased torque ~$200
All new timing components (chain, rubber, gears) $300 +
New gasket complete set $80

If above mentioned used, Head valves/seals/guides P&P.... ~ $600 +

As can be reviewed, this stuff adds up fast. All depends on what your desiring. New parts (recommended) but since you gave it a $2K setting, will require some used pieces such as the camshafts.

Now throw in the following for what good is the above if you only have POS carbs installed....
Carbs $700
electronic ignition $240 + pending model
Exhaust $500 +

Time to rape the kids college fund....

OMR

Changing your name to "THE HEAT"! Easy man, out of sun, sit awhile, let the head clear. That buzz is not your oil pump this time.

APE Jay wrote:

Old Man Rock wrote:

You have some way out of whack prices here. Bore and hone $120.00 all four holes.
Adjustable cam gears $49.00 ( we are the people who make them)
Complete head rebuild including guides, around $400.

As for the rebuild, you missed the valves, springs, guides, seals and P&P Jay.... Last time I checked at APE website, it was around $850 or so if I remember correctly so actually, I was being generous....
HW-40 Port and valve job 8-valve 850.00


OMR

This is the one I mentioned. Also we almost never have to replace KZ valves.;

Excellent power increase for small motors (up to 1075cc). This head uses the stock customer-supplied valves.

Includes
*Porting
*Competition Multi-angle Valve Job
*Cam Clearanced for APE K410 Cams.
*Bronze Valve Guides
*Racing Valve Springs
*Seals
*Assembled (not shimmed).

HW15 - $995.00

Jay

What kind of flow numbers go with that head? Is that a street clean up or more?
Are valves extra?

APE Jay wrote:

Old Man Rock wrote:

1075 plus piston kit ~ $600 + pending new / used.
Bore & hone $300-$400 ($80 a hole here in Az)
possibly new sleeves pending size piston selection ...
Camshafts pending used / new... $300-$500
Adjustable cam gears... $75 each = $150
Wedded crank to handle increased torque ~$200
All new timing components (chain, rubber, gears) $300 +
New gasket complete set $80

If above mentioned used, Head valves/seals/guides P&P.... ~ $600 +

As can be reviewed, this stuff adds up fast. All depends on what your desiring. New parts (recommended) but since you gave it a $2K setting, will require some used pieces such as the camshafts.

Now throw in the following for what good is the above if you only have POS carbs installed....
Carbs $700
electronic ignition $240 + pending model
Exhaust $500 +

Time to rape the kids college fund....

OMR

You have some way out of wack prices here. Bore and hone $120.00 all four holes.
Adjustable cam gears $49.00 ( we are the people who make them)
Complete head rebuild including guides, around $400.



To get the most bang for the $2000 would be our SSR1075 kit, which is pistons, cams, valve springs $986.00 kzzone.com/kits.html
Street hot rod cylinder head $995.00 kzzone.com/heads.html

Add the boring and you would be around $2100

What size carbs will be needed and how much?

With this set up, I would want some Gaskets, retainers, buckets and carbs. Without it, your just chasing your own tail.

If you buy new carbs? You can just about, call it a $3000 motor. You just might want that light weight, 650 valve train, for power and safety.

It's real hard to do it for 2K, if you think very big. You guys must think I'm crazy for suggesting a med/compression small bore motor, with small cams and a ported head?

My real question is, how fast will the 1075 with 410 cams and a ported head/with stock carbs go? Can it dip into the 10's with a 200lbs+ rider?

You need to ask your self the following.... Seriously!

What are your true goals in this re-build...
Street ride or drag bike...

Do you want top end speed versus off the line / mid range accelerations...

What environment do you live in.... Hot, Dry, Wet, humid, elevation...

How much do I really want to spend...

If I go to big, is she going to run hot....

29mm-31mm is good for street low to mid range acceleration, good idle or do you want more time at the fuel pumps... Anything over 34mm is a great carb mid to high range but read the postings, ppl are having a hell of a time tuning at idle to low mid range with these carbs... Well Ya... They're a racing carb damn it designed for in your face WOT racing not putzing around town...

Am I going to need some special type of fuel...

Do I plan on spending every weekend tweaking on her...

Or should I just add a turbo for the little power gain / acceleration I'm looking for....

Or the one I used to decide on my build... Do I truly plan on riding her above 120mph, if so how often... Seriously! Where the hell was I plan on doing this at my age and in my riding style... Naw... Decision easy now...


As for "My real question is, how fast will the 1075 with 410 cams and a ported head/with stock carbs go? Can it dip into the 10's with a 200lbs+ rider?"

Mostly depends on your gearing & tire circumferences...
You can have a big old blown out, turbo, nitro, superman, pixie dust motor but if your gearing is not set up correctly, it's only going to go so fast... end of story... It's physics boys & girls...

As can be reviewed for my 900... The most I could possibly get out of her is 117mph for in my set up, I desired more in your face low to mid range acceleration so had to give up a little top end to accomplish.

In dropping to a 35 rear, 128mph max... If drop a tooth on the front and a 35 on the rear then 140's max but at what costs... Yup, slower acceleration!

A good thing I learned of Larry C.... Forget the guys name but had a 1045 setup, performance cams, 31-34mm carbs and was kicking the crap out of everyone at the strip... The other riders just couldn't figure it out with their big bore blown out motors...

Let's see, perfect gearing, perfectly tuned motor and a really, really good rider... well do the physics & math, not hard to figure out....

Look at some 1/4 mile times and top end speeds... They got their quicker but their top ends where lower than the other guy... Hmmm, why do you think that was....

Ok, I'm done now...

Old Man Rock wrote:

You need to ask your self the following.... Seriously!

What are your true goals in this re-build...
Street ride or drag bike...

Do you want top end speed versus off the line / mid range accelerations...

What environment do you live in.... Hot, Dry, Wet, humid, elevation...

How much do I really want to spend...

If I go to big, is she going to run hot....

29mm-31mm is good for street low to mid range acceleration, good idle or do you want more time at the fuel pumps... Anything over 34mm is a great carb mid to high range but read the postings, ppl are having a hell of a time tuning at idle to low mid range with these carbs... Well Ya... They're a racing carb damn it designed for in your face WOT racing not putzing around town...

Am I going to need some special type of fuel...

Do I plan on spending every weekend tweaking on her...

Or should I just add a turbo for the little power gain / acceleration I'm looking for....

Or the one I used to decide on my build... Do I truly plan on riding her above 120mph, if so how often... Seriously! Where the hell was I plan on doing this at my age and in my riding style... Naw... Decision easy now...

Sorry Rock, the question was for Jay, but since you brought it up.

As for "My real question is, how fast will the 1075 with 410 cams and a ported head/with stock carbs go? Can it dip into the 10's with a 200lbs+ rider?"

I asked this question for two reasons (I know that most bike shop won't answer it) and what kind of bang would he get for his buck? If there isn't going to be alot of bang, why build a 1075? and you are not going to get any carbs? LarryC's street clean up is a very good head for most motors, he charges like $500. Jay had talked about an $800 head. Their the flow guys, someone tell me why an $800 head would be better then a $500 head with stock carbs? Jay said your prices may be off? Yes he does make the parts! On the other hand, we buy them. Look at the prices we pay! If Jay thinks it's out of line, just think about how we feel? Do we get an KZR discount from anyone?

Mostly depends on your gearing & tire circumferences...
You can have a big old blown out, turbo, nitro, superman, pixie dust motor but if your gearing is not set up correctly, it's only going to go so fast... end of story... It's physics boys & girls...

As can be reviewed for my 900... The most I could possibly get out of her is 117mph for in my set up, I desired more in your face low to mid range acceleration so had to give up a little top end to accomplish.

In dropping to a 35 rear, 128mph max... If drop a tooth on the front and a 35 on the rear then 140's max but at what costs... Yup, slower acceleration!

The 14T/35t has been used for many years as a 4 speed, in the 1/4 mile. Not to bad off the line, for most people and bracket racers.This gearing combo has won many races over time.(should be close to 118-120 mph 1/4 mile from an average motor)

As for the 15T/35T, stock Z1 gearing. We all know how fast they went.(appx. 120-130 mph on flat ground, 112-118 mph in the 1/4)

A good thing I learned of Larry C.... Forget the guys name but had a 1045 setup, performance cams, 31-34mm carbs and was kicking the crap out of everyone at the strip... The other riders just couldn't figure it out with their big bore blown out motors...

Let's see, perfect gearing, perfectly tuned motor and a really, really good rider... well do the physics & math, not hard to figure out....

Physics and math are great things, for some problems. There are hundreds of races won every year, without the use of math, physics or pen and paper. It sure is nice to have an engineer, in your back pocket!
On this site 95% of what is being done, has been done before, not much new.

The motor will tell you what gears, it likes! You can TRY to tell it! Maybe thats why it takes some shops, years to refine their engine kits and combos?
Look at some 1/4 mile times and top end speeds... They got their quicker but their top ends where lower than the other guy... Hmmm, why do you think that was....

Bore size,compression ratio,cams, gears, carbs, good hole shot on a crappy bike, real torquey motor or to low of deck height??? any of the above. A win is a win!

As I agree with pretty much everything you wrote but this..."There are hundreds of races won every year, without the use of math, physics or pen and paper."...

Don't fool yourself, these old timers know these numbers, how this gearing works, how all these factors come into play...

For these new & young teams, computer does it for them..... :laugh:

Dave