Value of a performance build

Can someone fill me in. I am looking for an estimate of a performance build. The engine would be built to peak efficiency while not sacrificing reliability (to much) I have read about 1200 that still idle well. I intend on riding this bike. Oh and consider the estimate is to build it "right" I hate doing things twice.

Will the trans be ok or should that be built also?

For a 1200cc motor your looking at some serious money. There is a lot of machine work involved when you get over 1105 I believe. You can go to kzzone.com and check the prices for parts alone and you can also check machine work. It ads up pretty quick. If you are paying someone to put it together for you ad about $1000 to the bill. As for the tranny, there are a lot of things you can do to it. It all depends again on money. Having it undercut is a must but you can get billet gears and a billet output shaft to make it bullet proof. When I get around to building my big motor this summer (maybe) I will start at the bottom and get the best of everything even if it takes a month to save for one part. I am a firm believer in a bottom end that will take any amount of HP you will want later on so you won't have to open up the motor again for a top end change when the bike gets boring a year down the road.

$5K plus would be a good starting point if you were going to do it correctly....

Pistons, rings, big bore cylinder kit, cams, welded crank, new set of large carbs to feed that monster, head work valve, springs, port and polish, new timing components, probably some new electrical components, oil cooler etc.... Oh yeah, don't forget frame re-enforcements to hold that motor from vibrating out of the frame.... :laugh:

Now here's the ball buster, she's not going to purr for you and be for no better choice of wording "trouble free" meaning where you won't have constant tweaking in that size motor...

Is she going to run like a raped ape, oh most definitely, but on which gas you may want to ask yourself.... Read some of the postings by these guys where they are pretty much stuck using a special blend of fuel... :blink: Doesn't sound like fun to me...

Anyhoot, $5K is a good starting point but expect higher as you go.... for there's always the "Oh shit, didn't think of that"...

EDIT: BTW, where do you live... Example, air cooled pumped up motors don't do well here in AZ summers, tend to over heat a tad....

Seriously, you'll see chromed out HD's all over the place in the summer here.... But she sure looks good sitting on the side of the road.... lol!

OMR

you can build a high end motor reasonably cheap as long as youre willing to do the majority of the dirty work yourself,you can build a stout reliable motor for under $3000.00 that will leave your stock chassis wanting to spend a lot of time on the psychiatrists couch leaking oil all over itself !:laugh: before you dump a lot of power into a motor spend some time/money working out the chassis issues

Thank You for the input guys, truth: I found a bike at very reputable shop that has the motor worked done and the bike is beautiful. They want about 9000 for the bike. I am trying to figure to build mine (time is tough these days) or buy it done. I cerntainly appreciate the value of the build and knowlege of my own hands turning all nuts and bolts but i do trust this shop with this bike. and as I said time is tough. Seems the price isnt so bad

Genros wrote:

Can someone fill me in. I am looking for an estimate of a performance build. The engine would be built to peak efficiency while not sacrificing reliability (to much) I have read about 1200 that still idle well. I intend on riding this bike. Oh and consider the estimate is to build it "right" I hate doing things twice.

Will the trans be ok or should that be built also?

Check out Larry Cavanaughs website. It costs around 7k to have him buil you a nasty 1200 but built heavy duty will all the goodies. My motor will cost quite a bit as well. Head work, Cams, Pistons, Falicon Crank, Schitz undercut trans. None of that stuff is cheap buttttttt if you wanna build it bigger than you should then you need to make sure you do all of it including the swingarm stretched and the steering bearings replace with the I think its spelled timpkin bearings or whatever you get the pronounciation. Then add a little more and someone can put it all together. The big money is not in the labor but the work you can't do yourself such as machining the parts and cutting the gears. If you are considering buying the bike from Redline Cycles for 9 grand then know for sure that you can get that bike for 4 grand from a real person. That guy screwed me on some simple work I didn't have the time to do myself and I will never go back to him again. Later I hear he was sued before for charging premiums and stealing parts off of someone's motor. Anyway that is another story. Whenever you buy a bike from a dealer know you will be getting less than what you could elsewhere.

Genros wrote:

Thank You for the input guys, truth: I found a bike at very reputable shop that has the motor worked done and the bike is beautiful. They want about 9000 for the bike. I am trying to figure to build mine (time is tough these days) or buy it done. I cerntainly appreciate the value of the build and knowlege of my own hands turning all nuts and bolts but i do trust this shop with this bike. and as I said time is tough. Seems the price isnt so bad

Do it yourself and have someone put it together for you as then you will know for sure what is in it and what shape its in. 9grand better be a KILLER motorcycle even an early z1 for that price. Build it yourself and have someone put it together you trust or can watch do it that is very skilled.
Figure on a great paint job 800-1000, Corbin if you like for 350 Then a custom chromoly swingarm around 8-900 installed maybe a few hundred less. Then the engine you will want solid which means welded crank indexed and trued, undercut gears even if you're happy for insurance a heavy duty second gear installed costs around 150 at kzzone. That right there is pricey around 600 then the head for that big will cost around 500 and cams 300 or more or little less, carbs are 600-900 new flatsides. Then the parts in the head like lighter cam stuff. Titanium springs retainers and valves and you can see right away that having someone fix it is very little in comparison to parts. Then consider buying that bike. Yeah maybe it is big bore has some cams. Yeah maybe it sounds nice and is fast but how many corners did they cut putting it together. Most businesses are out to make money not lose on a rebuild they just put what they need on it and get rid of it as if they spent alot. I wouldn't buy it fixed up. I would get it done after I bought a rat bike for about 3-600 that hasn't been molested much just abused perhaps like a red headed step-child who got beat alot and wasn't kept up and doesn't run. Build the swing arm and mock it up then Powder coat the frame 300 or so and build up the engine piece by piece. These bikes are getting ancient but they will look better than good if you do all of the nice things to them. Have faith and don't spend 8k on a bike you don't personally know all the things that are in the engine and how long it has been run. The bike could look great and be all tired out inside from the thrashings over the lifetime of the build and may have not been built right but just enough and when some problems came up the owner thought let me get rid of her. People who love their bikes don't usually sell them once they are perfect they keep them and move on to buy other bikes and start a collection.

It cost me $2500.00 to have a 1075 engine built.(Mark II engine) I had the Andrews cams and just needed the piston kit and a couple of gears and some more parts in the tranny. And the head work.

Nice little street motor. I give those 600cc bikes a hard time for a mile. Roy

Cro DOg, you kind blew the roof off of my discretion. Let it be said now before I go on. I do not want to introduce any bad karma, feeling, insults blah blah blah to any motorcycle shop I dont know the facts about. I will state the facts I do know below. Any advice any of you can give would be awsome.
Me: 33 yr old business guy that loves to ride and have fun. I have a big time thirst for a vintage bike customized to this sureal image in my head. The Kossman equipped bike on Redlines web site)
I dont have the time to build it myself (you get time or money not both, I have a lil more money than time right now)
A local shop (trusting) has offered to build it the way I want it at an hourly rate (wont have them do the motor though.
The Redline bike is pretty much the end result I have in mind with the exception of not knowing to much about the front ends. (keep it stock or mod it more than they have)
Facts
Redline is asking 10900 for the bike
I sent pics of my kz over to see about a tradein offer
no reponse yet
I figure from the prices you guys have given, if Redline built it right it will cost me more than 10900 to build mine.
Honeslty cant really afford 10g right now, I am scraping the bottom of the bucket now and really like the bike, thinking of negotiating and a loan to close the deal if it happens. If anyone (CRO DOG) know what the deal is with the bike and whom has one for sale please let me know

Sorry so long

Genros,
Redline Cycles huh? I dealt with him before. He is all about business. I too was going to have him build my bike up for me and I can tell you this he is not an easy guy to talk to and he is extremely opinionated.
He tuned up my bike got it running pretty good but I had a squeal on my rear brake pads and my starter didn't work because I had some wires that were bad. Well, I being like you could have changed out the rotor because the pads were new but said why not just have him do it for me as I didn't have the time to do it.
Mistake. I paid the price to have my starter rebuilt and bought another rotor and brake job and I will be damned if when I went to pick the bike up I asked the mechanic who worked on it what they had to do to it and he told me that he just replaced the wire to starter from battery something I was going to order from z1 and do myself but Jim charged me the full price anyway, and well that got me buggered and then when I started riding that squeal came back on my brakes I took it to him to fix and he did something and replaced the pads twice and no dice then he said he would take the rotor off and send it to get refinished. Hope he eats the @#$% thing because after his rant that my rotor was crap when it was smoother than the crap he put on and charged me good money for. Then when, later, I tried to get his opinions on things with the rebuild he shut me out so screw him. I took my bike elsewhere and you know what? There is someone else that does better work and is much more amiable and amenable to ideas when it comes down to building nice street bikes. I say shop around. Fix up your old bike better because at that you can do it as much as you can afford. Get the chassis done stretched, replace the steering bearings go over the wiring or replace with completely fresh new wires then hit the engine. Step by step there are so many better options. He does have some killer looking bikes at the shop and for eye candy I really enjoyed going there to have a look see but with him it's not about you rather than his business and if it comes to asking about stuff he is not very straightforward. You should put some pictures of your ride up. Are you from Chicagoland area?

"I can tell you this he is not an easy guy to talk to and he is extremely opinionated. "

ya know thats funny....i bought from them once and talked to them twice on the phone...one thing that stuck out was his rant on customer service....i wont get into details, but i walked away from that call
thinking "this guy needs some people skills"...

keith1 wrote:

"I can tell you this he is not an easy guy to talk to and he is extremely opinionated. "

ya know thats funny....i bought from them once and talked to them twice on the phone...one thing that stuck out was his rant on customer service....i wont get into details, but i walked away from that call
thinking "this guy needs some people skills"...

hahaha the truth comes out about that cork sucker. He got sued once for switching parts out on a customer's bike of his who didn't know what was in it. Actually it was more like the entire engine and the guy who sold him the bike told the new owner and they took Jim to court and won. To hell with that POS SOB.
There are not many guys that really work on these bikes any more and maybe less that you can trust but I can tell you honestly that he will never touch my bike. EVER.
I am an older guy so I don't work on my bike other than polishing my aluminum parts and cleaning it but if you check out my bike on here and click on the picture of it I guarantee you will like it MUCH more than that stuff redline has. The guy who did my bike only rides those bikes and he is at EPE Performance (773)478-0508 I can honestly say that my bike looks awesome in comparison to that "Kosman special" Bikes can look nice in pictures but I can tell you mine looks way nicer than the other bike and I don't have much more than that involved in my resto. Check out those pics of my bike. Those parts are all new and functional. Seeing is believing. I just want to save you from dealing with a crook if I can. The last bike I had done I spent quite a bit of money on and it was a terrible resto. I lost 4 grand on it when I sold it.
Check it out in the z1 900 gallery toward the very end of the pics pages 29 and 30. It's a black beauty for sure.:ohmy: