CAM DEGREEING Removed...

Thank You!
We are all here to share ideas and help each other.The cam companies sell cams, but leave us hanging on timing.

Not sure I'm following your formulas correctly so please excuse my ignorance here but...

Wouldn't the valve lift be required somewhere in this math?

OMR

Maybe this will add a little insight....

www.wallaceracing.com/cambasics.htm

Well I typed an answer but my internet wiped it out, so I'll try a shorter answer. Please don't take it to the bank!

When it comes to L/C there are a couple ways to calulate it. I will use a z1 again: int.30-70 / exh.70-30

I USE THE EASYEST FORMULA:

A)int.opening + int. closing + 180*
(30+70+180=280

B)280 divded by 2 = 140

C) 140 - the smallest number.
(140-30 = 110* L/C)

No where does this formula ask for lift.

As for LSA (lobe sepration angle)I have never seen a formula because car cams & some motorcycles are engineered and designed with it built in. DOHC motorcycles and dohc cars are the only motors I know of this can be changed through cam timing.
My point is changing cam timing can give you more power! But there can be some downsides to it. Do you want to run pump gas? If your over #200psi be careful. Your new pistons might just become ash trays.
Right now a lot of Harley riders are installing torque cams. When the motor gets hot the starter won't spin it over. To much cranking compression. The answer is to retard the cam (intake valve will close later)so the cranking compression is reduced OR use a cam with a later closing event.

PLEASE DON'T EXSPECT ME TO KNOW MUCH, I have never gotten any rewards for being smart........

Unless I'm totally not understanding, that formula is for CAM lobe centering based on your degree recordings, not necessarily for lobe separations between the two cam lobe centers...

As depicted in the first paragraph, these two terms are often confused with one another... I for one is one of them and this is one of the reasons I shared this with you guys...

Granted, pending your center line sprocket adjustments, these numbers will shift thus effect your LC lapping.

Agreed on one thing with you, research and order the cam for desired performances...

As for downsides, most definitely pro's and cons pending which way you go... In my case, desired more low to mid range for going over 100mph, not likely, rare occasion at the most.

That's the beauty of it all, with adjustable cam sprockets, you get to fine tune to your desired performances...

Ah well, for now I stuck with the cam LC design of 105...
May adjust differently for a little extra zip once she's broke in....

OMR

Yes, to your 1st. paragraph (the L/C is the only thing important to me) LSA is the relationship between the intake lobe center and the exhaust lobe center. L/C is the relationship between the cam lobe center and the crankshaft.
I think your in good shape, heres why!
If your set up for a 105* L/C,That is the closes your intake valve will come to the piston. That means if you chachange your mind later. You can re-degree your cams to stright up timing or move to a higher L/C. You won't risk driving a valve into a piston. You won't have to take it apart to check valve to piston clearance. You have three timing choices with no problem. Almost like three motors in one. Next time you build an engine, you can call the cam company and say. I like this lift, this duration, this overlap & this lobe center. If they don't have it, they can grind it. You now have the chance to play with it. I don't see any worries.

PS- I should of asked that is your intake closing point,if you know off hand?

intake closing point,if you know off hand?

As provided in the pdf, the image on the left is the camshaft specification card, the image on the right is in using these numbers and utilizing the Webcam calculator on their site and degreeing at .050" from just opening to full close of the valve seating...

This cam is very close to the old Engle #K12. It was a good cam with great torque. The cranking compression was high but it ran fine on pump gas. I used it in three different motors. I have known about six or eight other guys who used the #K12. Everyone turned their motors well over 10,000rpm. A friend of mine that was 6'2" @ 230 lbs.used it in a low compression 1015cc motor. He ran 10.80 his 1st. time ever at the drags. He was clocked at 156mph at the dry lakes(still spinning the tire in 5th. gear on the sand) My brother used it to do wheelies well over 100mph. Your cam has more overlap and should have a higher working power band. You will have more useable power then most people. That all I know for sure......

You will have more useable power then most people. That all I know for sure......

Yup, that was what I was figuring when researching to what cam I wanted for ideal operations...

More good stuff kzz1p.I think you have it together.
I have a question,though.Some of the numbers escape me.Are you talking 200 psi cranking compression,for example?
I was wondering,how did you guys get those kind of numbers.What kind of pistons?
I like to keep my motor under 9k,so I run the cam timing a little different.Like you said,three engines in one.
Hats off to you!
Nice Stuff!!!

The number #200 lbs. comes from a lot of magazines (hot bike) not to long ago. Car craft and some cam companies & engine builders. However Z's will go alittle higher with no problem. Gasoline now days doesn't have as high of octane like it use to. I try to keep in mind the chart I posted on the thread. "Appx. Compression chart" a couple of days ago. I have used as high as #256lbs.with 10.25:1 pistons and bolt-in cams. I would not suggest this on someone elses motor. Z's seem to be very foregiving with it's alum. head & parts. I suggest you start with a pretty rich mixture (to cool it) and then work slowly down from there.
I would rather give up alittle cranking compression or even compression ratio to save my motor. I live in California and we have the worse gasoline (thank you EPA!) haha!
Can you share what type of cam timing you use? Or send me a private message.
Once again, everyone does it different. I only know what works for me.......

To compute the lobe center, you:blalbla lbla

The lobe center on this cam is 105 degrees.
The method is the same on the exhaust except the opening number will be a value before bottom dead center (BBDC),
the closing value will be after top dead center (ATDC) and again, subtract the smaller number.
For Example:
Exhaust opens (at 1mm lift) 60 BBDC
Exhaust closes (at 1mm lift) 40 ATDC
60+40+180=280, divide by 2=140, subtract 40 from 140 =100
The lobe center on this cam is 100 degrees

he means after!!!:woohoo: