CAM DEGREEING Removed...

  • Old Man Rock
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26 Jan 2009 18:07 - 01 Feb 2009 17:05 #260390 by Old Man Rock
CAM DEGREEING Removed... was created by Old Man Rock
Removed....

Dave

1976 KZ900-A4
MTC 1075cc.
Camshafts: Kawi GPZ-1100 .375 lift
Head: P&P via Larry Cavanaugh
ZX636 suspension
MIKUNI, RS-34'S...
Kerker 4-1, 1.5" comp baffle.
Dyna-S E.I.
Earls 10 row Oil Cooler
Acewell 2802 Series Speedo/Tach
Innovate LC1 Wideband 02 AFR meter

Phoenix, Az
Last edit: 01 Feb 2009 17:05 by Old Man Rock.

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  • Kawickrice
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26 Jan 2009 18:25 #260392 by Kawickrice
Replied by Kawickrice on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
That is very phuckin informative. Thanks for the time spent so us dumdphucks can understand it

73 Kawasaki Z1
07 HD CVO Ultra Classic
82 Suzuki GS 1100
74 Yamaha RD 350 (My two stroke toy)
77 Kawasaki KZ 650B-1 (My putt around bike)
80 Indian Moped (My American Iron)
1
Long Gone
75 Suzuki GT550
74 GT 380
79 RD 400 Daytona Special
72 Honda CL 175
74 Honda QA 50
Tampa FL

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26 Jan 2009 18:28 #260395 by keith1
Replied by keith1 on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
Old Man Rock wrote:

Don’t let the title deceive you into thinking this write up being a parody of sorts for all the information contained within is basically excerpts from the camshaft manufacturers themselves and experts alike. I have spoken with numerous individuals that have considerable more knowledge than I regarding the subject matter, such as Larry Cavanaugh (Cavanaugh Racing heads), Plummen (truly, special gratitude to Larry & Plum), Timebomb, Mark1122, Sandy and Kawasakiman as well as others to pick their minds.

Basically I bugged the hell out of them until they gave me what I wanted to shut me the hell up!

members.cox.net/ruinsofstei/MOTORCYCLE%2...FOR%20DUMBPHUCKS.pdf

Hope it helps some others (Dumbphucks) to the process as I...

Dave




WOW...JUST FRACKIN WOW...nice job.....i gave it the quick read as its getting late here in little iceland, but you did a hell of a job...
i definitely have some reading to do.....
and that title.....i was having flashbacks of when i was a kid....untill i hit school i thought my given name was "goddammit dumbphuck" ...lol...seriously, nice job and you obviously spent a lot of time to benefit others...sticky of the year.....keith

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26 Jan 2009 19:29 #260404 by Sandy
Replied by Sandy on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
heh heh heh,that's good,Rock.

Thanks for that,definitely worth phuckin saving.

Good one!B)

1977 KZ1000 A-1

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26 Jan 2009 19:45 - 26 Jan 2009 19:49 #260405 by kawsakiman
Replied by kawsakiman on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
thanks for the shout out!
but you spelled my name wrong again.
you need to omit the a after kaw.

kawasaki or kawsaki

who's the dumb phuck now? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

i saved it as well. great write up man!

someday i will be able to afford my kz habit.
Last edit: 26 Jan 2009 19:49 by kawsakiman.

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26 Jan 2009 20:30 #260412 by PLUMMEN
Replied by PLUMMEN on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
dear cam man........

Still recovering,some days are better than others.
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  • kzz1p
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26 Jan 2009 21:36 #260426 by kzz1p
Replied by kzz1p on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
I have one quick question? In the article on cam degreeing, under the heading of " Lobe separtion angle " Where it has extremely wide to extremely tight. Is the heading correct?
Isn't that the lobe centers? There is a big differance. I'm not sure that I am understanding correctly.

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26 Jan 2009 23:49 - 01 Feb 2009 17:06 #260428 by Old Man Rock
Replied by Old Man Rock on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
removed...

1976 KZ900-A4
MTC 1075cc.
Camshafts: Kawi GPZ-1100 .375 lift
Head: P&P via Larry Cavanaugh
ZX636 suspension
MIKUNI, RS-34'S...
Kerker 4-1, 1.5" comp baffle.
Dyna-S E.I.
Earls 10 row Oil Cooler
Acewell 2802 Series Speedo/Tach
Innovate LC1 Wideband 02 AFR meter

Phoenix, Az
Last edit: 01 Feb 2009 17:06 by Old Man Rock.

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27 Jan 2009 00:17 #260429 by Old Man Rock
Replied by Old Man Rock on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!

" Where it has extremely wide to extremely tight. Is the heading correct?


I believe the heading to be correct, copied directly from the www.webcamshafts.com/ ... Glossary

The way I'm looking at it is as follows...
Mind you, I'm by no way an expert and don't claim to be!!!!

Based on the lobe center separation and in the information directly above it Varying Lobe Center Separation it would be considered Tight due to short range of 104 to 114 lobe centers.

Example, the OEM KZ camshafts lobe center is 110 degrees thus Broad Power band, reduced cylinder pressure @ 8.5:1, reduced max torque, etc...

With the 105 cam I chose, I'm doing the opposite where I'm shifting my power band more to the low to mid range, increasing my max torque but I'm also increasing cylinder pressures @ 10:1 etc...

Basically, a little quicker off the line and especially at mid rpm range...

Excerpt for Webcam... Not all motors can handle the tight lobe centering due to the mentioned....

1976 KZ900-A4
MTC 1075cc.
Camshafts: Kawi GPZ-1100 .375 lift
Head: P&P via Larry Cavanaugh
ZX636 suspension
MIKUNI, RS-34'S...
Kerker 4-1, 1.5" comp baffle.
Dyna-S E.I.
Earls 10 row Oil Cooler
Acewell 2802 Series Speedo/Tach
Innovate LC1 Wideband 02 AFR meter

Phoenix, Az
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27 Jan 2009 14:46 #260504 by kzz1p
Replied by kzz1p on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
Hey, I'm dumber then a box of rocks! I don't claim to know anything. I went back and looked it over again. No place did I see the formula for finding lobe separation angle.You don't hear it talked about much in motorcycles. Cars, it's designed into the cam when they are made.I hear a lot of people say use this or that lobe center and your motor will run great.The rule of thumb for most cam companies is, if you advance or retard the cam more then 4* buy the right cam you need.
I look at the closing point of the intake valve! To much cranking compression and you will be using race fuel. I like to lay out each possibile cam timing choice on paper so I can see it. The way I see it you have about seven timing choices.(advance both, retard both, advance int./retard exh., retard int./advance exh.,advance int./stock exh.,retard intake/stock exh.& stright up )You can find these choices on the net used by motorcycle drag racers, road racers and import car tuners.I have not seen anyone tune just the exhaust cam. Here is my example for three. I will use a stock Z1 cam.

L/C: Intake/Exhaust: Overlap: valve timing:
105* +5* / -5* 70* 35-65 / 65-35
106* +4* / -4* 68* 34-66 / 66-34
107* +3* / -3* 66* 33-67 / 67-33
108* +2* / -2* 64* 32-68 / 68-32
109* +1* / -1* 62* 31-69 / 69-31
110* stock timing 60* 30-70 / 70-30
111* -1* / +1* 58* 29-71 / 71-29
112* -2* / +2* 56* 28-72 / 72-28
113* -3* / +3* 54* 27-73 / 73-27
114* -4* / +4* 52* 26-74 / 74-26
115* -5* / +5* 50* 25-75 / 75-25

NOTE- If you find ANYTHING wrong with my homegrown hilbillie garage math "PLEASE, PLEASE" let me know so I can change my line of thinking.

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  • CoreyClough
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27 Jan 2009 15:22 #260511 by CoreyClough
Replied by CoreyClough on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
Sure wish I had taken the measurements on these Megacycle Cams, with adjustable sprockets, before I sent them out for repair.


Intake Cam


Exhaust Cam

Intake cam looks to be dead center, but the exhaust looks to be advanced quite a bit. These cams were on a ported head, with a 615cc engine that came in one of my parts bikes.

'85 GPz550(ZX550-A2)

GPz550 Base Manual --> tinyurl.com/ze5b3qo
GPz550 Supplement Manual --> tinyurl.com/h34d2o6
GPz550.com --> www.nwsca.com/scripts/gpz_forum_2005/default.asp
First Race Win GPz550 --> tinyurl.com/o5y3ftp

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27 Jan 2009 16:12 #260518 by Z Krazy 1
Replied by Z Krazy 1 on topic CAM DEGREEING FOR DUMBPHUCKS!!!!
Very nice cam degree chart kzz1p

I don't care how they do it in California

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