help me decide on engine build: big cams, compression and NOS vs low compression TURBO????

well i joind the MS forum and started a thread, waiting for replies, ill post everything here for everyone to read if they want to:)
click here to go to the MS thread i started

I am also doing a turbo kz. Using a turbo off of a KZ. What do you mean by HD Carb??? Do you mean using a single carb setup from a harley? How would this be done, and would it function better than just building an intake manifold to distribute the air to all four carbs? Thats what i plan to do. doing it all for unker $1K! Then after the motor blows, I will build the Sh!% out of it.

yes a single mikuni carb used by some harley davidsons
check out the bike of the month, jeffs 900 has an old ATP kit that is a similar draw thru design with a single carb.
if you do a blow through carb setup, you wont be able to gravity feed the gas to the carbs. you will need to have a fuel pump that stays a couple psi higher than boost (that goes up and down in relation to boost as well) IIRC. all the old school kits were draw thru for some reason. maybe easier to tune?. mrturbo still offers the kits for the big kz's
what are the specs of the turbo you are using?

got some replies on the ms forum

Tuning a bike with a Palm is definitely possible, on the fly, same as a laptop in a car, only better, because the Palm gives bargraphs of RPM and TPS or MAP to center your engine exactly on top of the VE bin you have selected to tune. You do need quiet roads with minimal or low traffic and keep your mind more focussed on piloting the bike than looking at the Palm, but it is easily achievable. The beauty of tuning this way is that you get instant feedback on the changes you have made, which leads to a quicker tuning learning curve. Having to go home to make one tuning change with the laptop and then go out again to test it would take forever.

Datalogging is good for troubleshooting, finetuning and WOT tuning. The MLV referred to above is short for MegaLog Viewer, which is a PC program used to upload and view the datalogs. As stated above, this program can sift through the datalog and calculate a new suggested VE table for you, from all reports it works extremely well.

I have tuned my bike mainly using datalogs and log viewer. It's actually quite handy when you get used to it. Initial tuning is the most difficult part, it's very slow to tune with datalogs if the engine doesn't even rev through whole range.

Anyway, it would be very nice to have a Palm or some other way to tune in real time. But it's also possible to tune with laptop only.

Few comments about your list:
-The GPZ pump is quite weak, I had to change it when I installed a turbo. I really doubt that it's enough for 180 hp.
-You don't want to use a water temp sensor as air temp sensor on turbo setup, too slow reacting. Get a proper fast reacting air temp sensor.
-I guess that you will need something like 1 bar / 15 psi boost to get those power numbers. Intercooler or water injection would be a good idea with that boost level. Although you may be fine without since you are going to use quite low compression ratio. I'm using 7-8 psi boost with 9.5:1 compression without any charge cooling, works fine.

What would be the main advantage of running one carb, Just so you have to tune 1 instead of 4?

The turbo is a small 14b off of an Eagle Talon. talked to somebody on another forumm, and said that their 650 could spool the turbo up just fine. With the single carb setup how is it setup. what kind of intake manifold is used to distribute to all four cylinders???

meangreenz28 wrote:

What would be the main advantage of running one carb, Just so you have to tune 1 instead of 4?

i think its just how you put it, its easier to do. especially if you are doing a single carb draw thru vs a multi carb blow thru. (multi draw thru just doesnt make sence unless you have a turbo for each cylinder :blink: ) I have read a detailed thread on a blow thru carbed zx9r setup, he had to pressurize the carbs and having a rising rate fuel pressure regulator (no more gravity feed on a kz) so it wouldnt lean out under boost. it worked great but looked to be a hassel to set up. its on the dragbike.com forums if you want to check it out. he has a very good example of why to use forged pistons aswell:pinch:

jordan wrote:

With the single carb setup how is it setup. what kind of intake manifold is used to distribute to all four cylinders???

its kinda like an intake manifold on a 4 cylinder car i believe. ill look for a pic. all i can picture in my head is stuff for a big block v8

they changed around the mr turbo site. dont know where pics are, but theres some turbo bikes in the gallery here including the bike of the month
link 1
2
3
just do a search for turbo and you will see more. no real close ups of the intake, but its its not too hard to picture, think of the exhaust on the intake only shorter and with a carb and turbo attached

good news and bad news. good news is im starting to learn a bit of how the megasquirt system works. bad news is im im just at the point where i try to do calculations and just end up getting confused:P :pinch:
the gpz1100 injectors are rated for 200cc/min. will this be enough to support 180 hp? the megamanual says i need about 300cc/min:blink: it also talks about bumping pressure to get a new higher number for the injector. im not sure what pressure they base the 300 figure on. in one of larrycavans posts:

FYI, the 82-85 OEM Kaw GP11 setup will work on 1428cc engines with adjustable fuel pressure regulator. In situations where greater fuel delivery is required, one method is to use 2 fuel pumps in series.

does this include the stock injectors? one of the guys on the ms forum that has a turbo (that told me to get a better pump) upgraded from the 200cc/min injectors, gpz fuel pump, and pressure regulator (2.5bar) to 270cc/min injectors, a Mallory 4060FI fuel pump and modified the regulator to 3.3 bar

Make/Model: GPZ1100
Year: 1981-1982
Number of Tb: 4
Inside Diameter: 34mm
Center-Center (left to right from behind): 77-97-77mm
Overall Length:
Outside Diameter (intake): 40mm ("serrated")
Outside Diameter (filter): 40mm ("olived")
Separate casting: Yes
Injector Make/Model:
Flow Rate (36psi/100%): 180-200cc/min, 2,5Ω

Motorcycle, Snow-Mobile & Car Throttle Specs and Pics at msefi site.

I measure them at 35mm though.

GPz750 Turbo injectors have a higher flow rate, plus they are high impedance, and that makes things a little simpler.

87-89 Ford F150 external fuel pump is rated at either 42 or 46 psi, I forget which, and is available at parts stores and junkyards.
I don't understand the 3.3 bar regulator thing, the regulator should be referenced to manifold pressure.

Post subject: Some sites for finding fuel injector specifications

At msefi.

Don't forget that you can also run two sets of four injectors, one at the thottlebodies and one upstream, some new bikes are doing this. The second set kicks when when the boost builds.

Check at www.750turbo.com/ to see what the guys that are running ~180 hp are using for injectors.

Post edited by: steell, at: 2007/05/11 22:19

Wow..this is a cool thread. I don't have much knowledge on turbos, so this is definitely an eye opener!

Keep it coming!

I might put a megasquirt sticker on my bike, just so it says Megasquirt somewhere! :laugh: