The WORST day with my Kawasaki

kz650.

Had it on the side stand for weeks,

Started it last week. Cylinder 1 was oily, then sooty. Noticed power loss,

Changed the plugs. No change. It ran, but ran poorly. Took the carbs off and cleaned them. used compressed air and whatnot to clean the jets. All the passageways are clear.

I put the bike back together and now it wont start AT ALL.

Compression was checked. Warm. Without WOT compression measured 90. WITH WOT compression was 140-150. across the cylinders. Now Ive got friends telling me, "its compression, its spark, its fuel delivery." Its driving me nutz. I had a bike that AT LEAST ran, until i dithered with the carbs. Any ideas?

Its maddening when you get a group of guys on a bike and EACH ONE (my friends) says something different "its the top end!, its the CARBS, its WEAK SPARK, Its the PETCOCK, " everyone is saying something different.

BTW its has the dyna system which replaced points.

I just may get rid of this thing if the engine needs rebuilding. Just cant figure this out.

140-150 compression is good. Try spraying some starting fluid in each of the carb bores with the throttle open. Then try firing it up. If the engine runs strong for a couple of seconds then it is likely a fuel issue and not electrical. Besides, you can check for a fat blue spark at the spark plug. You could have gotten some debris from the tank get into the carbs. Are you even getting any fuel out of the tank? Check the fuel flow from the hose coming out of the petcock into a jar to make sure you are getting decent fuel flow. Stuck fuel float needles? Lots of other possibilities to check. Make sure you have a good service manual. There is a good diagram by Patton on this site which shows you the proper way to check and clean the passages of a carburetor.

did you remove the floats and if so did you you put them back upside down ?

KZJOE900 wrote: 140-150 compression is good. Try spraying some starting fluid in each of the carb bores with the throttle open. Then try firing it up. If the engine runs strong for a couple of seconds then it is likely a fuel issue and not electrical. Besides, you can check for a fat blue spark at the spark plug. You could have gotten some debris from the tank get into the carbs. Are you even getting any fuel out of the tank? Check the fuel flow from the hose coming out of the petcock into a jar to make sure you are getting decent fuel flow. Stuck fuel float needles? Lots of other possibilities to check. Make sure you have a good service manual. There is a good diagram by Patton on this site which shows you the proper way to check and clean the passages of a carburetor.

Thanks so much Joe. after 8 hours spent working on the bike yesterday, this was the end result:

Did you sell it or is it going to a mechanic?




....

Sweet bike, worth fixing. :whistle:
Steve

650Dude wrote: kz650.

Had it on the side stand for weeks,

Started it last week. Cylinder 1 was oily, then sooty. Noticed power loss,

Changed the plugs. No change. It ran, but ran poorly. Took the carbs off and cleaned them. used compressed air and whatnot to clean the jets. All the passageways are clear.

I put the bike back together and now it wont start AT ALL.

Compression was checked. Warm. Without WOT compression measured 90. WITH WOT compression was 140-150. across the cylinders. Now Ive got friends telling me, "its compression, its spark, its fuel delivery." Its driving me nutz. I had a bike that AT LEAST ran, until i dithered with the carbs. Any ideas?

Its maddening when you get a group of guys on a bike and EACH ONE (my friends) says something different "its the top end!, its the CARBS, its WEAK SPARK, Its the PETCOCK, " everyone is saying something different.

BTW its has the dyna system which replaced points.

I just may get rid of this thing if the engine needs rebuilding. Just cant figure this out.

Well, obviously, if you ask 10 different people about anything, your will get 10 different answers. It's human nature. every one of their opinions are just that a wild a$$ guess, since none of them have actually checked ANYTHING.

Sitting on the side stand lets all of the internal fluids pool in whatever direction it is leaning. The same principal that a level uses. Fluids and gravity does this. The oil more than likely pooled over the #1 valves and possibly fouled the #1 plug.


I prefer to put my bike on the center stand to keep the fuel in the carbs at the proper level, and the float still has the ability to regulate the fuel levels. The oil is no different. Even in my shed, I place a 2X4 under the side stand to try to keep the bike close to level, in order to keep all of the liquids (4 individual carbs AND the oil) at their proper levels, and nothing getting into an area that it doesn't belong or leaking out.


The starting fluid method is how shops can differentiate between a fuel issue, or a ignition issue. Saves lots of that pesky troubleshooting. Just a shot of ether into the air cleaner is all it takes. It either runs or it doesn't.

The starting fluid method is how shops can differentiate between a fuel issue, or a ignition issue. Saves lots of that pesky troubleshooting. Just a shot of ether into the air cleaner is all it takes. It either runs or it doesn't.

when we shot starter fluid in the back of the carbs with the carb boots off, it would start for a minute. then die. If we shot it into the air cleaner it made no difference and would not start.

There you have it! The starting fluid basically replaces the job of the carburetors. The carbs don't even have to be on. If all cylinders ran and ran strong, then fuel delivery or carbs is the issue. Your tank could be constricted with debris (you can test the flow from the tank or use a temporary tank/bottle for fuel delivery). If the fuel deliver form the tank has been tested and eliminated as the cause, then it must be the carburetors themselves. It could be stuck float valve(s) or incorrect fuel float levels, or even air leaks through cracks in the carb boots or improperly installed carbs (folded boots). Or debris in choke or pilot and or main jet passages. Once again, you have do further the proper diagnostic tests to find out which is causing the issue. For the bowl float level, the best way is to do the wet level test. Then go from there.

If you think it is blocked passages, here is a link to Patton's carb pilot system cleaning diagram:

www.kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/59306...aning-diagram#625094

Doing some basic diagnoses (tests) first t narrow down the issue is top priority. If your friends simply gave you opinions, instead of diagnostic tests you can try, then that only makes it harder to fix. You have to do a process of elimination based on diagnostic testing. I hope you haven't gotten rid of the bike, worth another shot.

If the valves have never been adjusted, the engine will run worse and worse until it doesn't run at all.
Steve

KZJOE900 wrote: There you have it! The starting fluid basically replaces the job of the carburetors. The carbs don't even have to be on. If all cylinders ran and ran strong, then fuel delivery or carbs is the issue. Your tank could be constricted with debris (you can test the flow from the tank or use a temporary tank/bottle for fuel delivery). If the fuel deliver form the tank has been tested and eliminated as the cause, then it must be the carburetors themselves. It could be stuck float valve(s) or incorrect fuel float levels, or even air leaks through cracks in the carb boots or improperly installed carbs (folded boots). Or debris in choke or pilot and or main jet passages. Once again, you have do further the proper diagnostic tests to find out which is causing the issue. For the bowl float level, the best way is to do the wet level test. Then go from there.

If you think it is blocked passages, here is a link to Patton's carb pilot system cleaning diagram:

www.kzrider.com/forum/3-carburetor/59306...aning-diagram#625094

Doing some basic diagnoses (tests) first t narrow down the issue is top priority. If your friends simply gave you opinions, instead of diagnostic tests you can try, then that only makes it harder to fix. You have to do a process of elimination based on diagnostic testing. I hope you haven't gotten rid of the bike, worth another shot.

Thanks again. I suspected it was the carbs. The weird thing is, it ran OK on the way to my friends shop but got worse and worse. Its only when he took the carbs off, and "cleaned" them, that the bike wouldnt start. Also, there was that pesky cylinder #1 that is the ONLY cylinder fouling plugs.

Im inclined to think its NOT the valves because this problem only happened when I had it on the kickstand for a month (not 2 or three weeks) after which only ONE clylinder was fouling. I think somehow I messed up the carbs.

Usually, when my bike starts running progressively worse, I am running out of fuel. I know it's time to switch my petcock to reserve. (the carbs start running out of fuel) Your buddy obviously didn't fix anything, and to tell ya the truth, if something doesn't run after ANY repair, it really wasn't "repaired" at all. The main thing is that he didn't make things even worse.
Loosen up the bowl drain screws to check for fuel in the carb bowls, better yet, use a clear tube to check for fuel levels while checking. You can bypass the vacuum petcock by switching it to prime to check for fuel.