Can't restart bike...what am I missing?

So I went into my first motorcycle repair shop yesterday to purchase a new battery. While I was there I asked the owner (small single man shop that's been in business for 10-20 years) whether he would be able to look over my motorcycle ('77 KZ400 D4) for a roadworthy inspection. I was thinking of something like a pre-purchase inspection auto mechanics offer but more geared towards telling me what needs should be addressed before I start riding on the roads, since this is my first motorcycle. He asked what the bike was and gave me quite a response when I told him. He basically said I should sell the thing and get something "better," that my bike is terrible in just about every way. Proceeded to tell me the engineering is bad, structure is bad, "Hell...the engine spins backwards." Long story short, he said I should not get too emotionally invested in it (um, too late...it's my first motorcycle.) He said if I wanted to, I could bring it by and "show" it to him. Basically he said he wouldn't work on it. I walked away, telling myself not to get too upset by his response and figured I might just look for another shop that would be more open to taking some of my money to insure my bike might be running close to what it should be.

Tonight, I'm wondering if his rants provide wisdom. My frustration is increasing, partially because I know I'm getting closer to being able to ride my first bike, and because, I certainly don't want to think he's right.

I picked up my battery today on my way home and proceeded to install it, hoping this was one less thing to address, getting me one step closer to riding it. Insert key, choke and petcock on, and proceed to kick. One thing I will say is that the 12ah battery is feels stronger than the $5 - 7ah battery the previous owner included in the sale of my bike, just in the kick. After two or three kicks, it started up. Idled around 2,500 rpm's for about 1-2 minutes. Then died. After several attempts and verification there was plenty of gas, I managed to figure out the wires at the coil kept working loose. This coil must be off a snowmobile because the plug wires are separate and only pushed in, not held by any type of fastener. I trimmed off the ends and reinserted, this time paying close attention to routing the wires in a way that prohibited them from coming loose.

I kicked it over again and the bike started. When I gave it throttle, the bike bogs down. Ran for about a minute and I proceeded to cut back on the chock. The idle started to rise at the slightest decrease of the choke. Some time later (1-2 minutes,) the bike died. I can't get it started again. Plug wires haven't moved, and no sign of flooded spark plug/cylinder.

Things I've done to date:

• Valve clearance checked (not fully confident, no previous experience)
• Points cleaned (not fully confident, no previous experience)
• Static timed (not fully confident, no previous experience)


• New battery
• New plugs, wires and boots
• New NOS carb boots
• Carbs cleaned twice, with new carb kits
• Diaphragms have been siliconed in two tiny spots (waiting to get bike running before I cut these and put my replacements on) but still check out as ok
• Pilot screw set to 1.5 turns from fully seated
• New rubber pipe from carbs to stock airbox

I'm sure I'm forgetting something...this weekend I'm going to verify proper float height. It's been like this for the past week or two; starts, dies and then won't start. Leave it overnight and cycle through those steps all over again. When it won't start, I can tell it's trying to fire, just won't catch. I'm just not sure where to go from here.

Does anyone care to help me out? Maybe spit out a couple of things I must be forgetting?

Make sure the surface of the head where the boots go is clean, what youre describing is that the engine is running lean (not enough gas and/or an air leak) may need to clean the carbs again; the basics, air box installed and hooked up right? Cap on etc, air leaking at the boots, i know you say they are new, probably want to change the diagrams anyway, probably wont run right like that (fuel vapor and silicone dont mix) post a picture of your coils.

And no, if you wanna ride and keep that bike it is worth while to have, the mechanic probably only has bad experience with hacked up modded neglected versions. (Why refuse to work on potential paying customers stuff?)

Most bike shops in my area will not work on pre 1990s bikes, some only post y2k. They get inside the bike to fix a problem, then find something else that needs to be done. The local guru called my 81 a hobbyist bike since it really is a labor of love. Parts are out there if u search, and it sounds like you are close. They just dont want to quote you a price, then up it when something else has to be done and hear you complain. The bike sitting in their shop takes up space while waiting for parts and they have to roll it out of the way every day. Most shops know an old guru who will work on it for you, so call the whole lot of em and ask.

Feel the exhaust pipes for a cold pipe next time it rips and roars to confirm all cylinders are firing, then check your spark plugs to see if they are getting gunked up.

Follow Patton's pilot cleaning post -easily searchable- to make sure carbs are good.

Confirm that you measured valve clearances properly. I pulled the head and found two cylinders with heavy carbon, so currently performing my first valve lapping job.

Gut your air injection emissions controls vacuum tubing if they are leaking air, but save the parts if you hate exhaust smells.

Check that your fuel petcock is in good order. It sounds like the bowls are running out of fuel. Do float needles move freely?

Most of these small repairs cost little, and you will be left with a stellar ride and the joy of knowing more about your bike.

Also, add your bike, location, and a link to your Factory Shop Manual or FSM to your signature so people don't have to search for that info in your posts. Go to user settings to do so.

Here is a link to your FSM, which u can download.
www.kz400.com/WorkshopManFrameset-5.html

Well Nduetime sounds like you got the biggest asshole bike shop in your area - things can only get better from here.
Have encountered a few of them as well but they are in the minority thank fuck.

It sounds like the guy at the shop is not familiar at all with KZ bikes. This isn't a surprise since they were made long before he ever picked up a wrench. Sure, he wants you to buy something different so he can make a buck or two working on it. I would find another shop. Ed

In hindsight, I figure he's thinking of a 440 (I believe they have the non-symmetrical frame.?)

So tonight, I kicked it over and it started on the second kick. At this point I'm thinking fuel related. If it was ignition I wouldn't think it to be this predictable. After it started, I let it idle for about a minute and started to cut back on the choke. Of course the idle started to rise. Increased the choke back to where it idled better. I started to let out the right-side carb pilot screw a quarter of a turn (1.75 from seated) and it sounded better. Walked to the other side and noticed the idle started to rise before I could get around. Started to back out the left pilot screw and it died on me. Tried to kick it over and nothing. At this point I figured it must be fuel related (must be running out of fuel?)

I pulled the right carb drain plug and had gas spill out of course. Tried to cram some clear hose into the drain hole to get a reading but only managed to get it in slightly. As you might assume gas came out pretty substantially as I opened the petcock. I was able to get it seated enlighten to assume my floats are set to low (cutting fuel off too soon.) moved to the right and couldn't really get the tube in to get a half-assed reading.

Two thing to take away from tonight (and the comments left so far,) I now know 1/4" OD hose won't fit inside the drain hole of my carbs and my ability to get this thing on the ride may be closer than I think!!....or, hope anyways.

Ed you put it better than I.Is that aquarium hose you are trying - 6mm.

Nduetime wrote: I now know 1/4" OD hose won't fit inside the drain hole of my carbs and my ability to get this thing on the ride may be closer than I think!!....or, hope anyways.

1. Start bike and immediately place bare arm across all exhaust pipes at head, feel for which one is hottest first and last, write down order. This simple diag will help determine next steps.

2. Remove carbs, make 4 hoses that fit OVER drain nipple, not inside, and use wider tubing at the end so meniscus doesn't skewer reading. Make alternate gas tank (squeeze bottle and tube) to feed gas to carbs. Hold hoses above float level, open all carb float drain screws, lower all 4 hoses at same time and watch levels. Take a pic.

3. Adjust floats to be 2-4mm below float bowl top, then take another reading before putting back on bike.

Could be bad petcock leaking fuel to fill carb bowls, and no vacuum to petcock or bad petcock diaphragm. Easy to inspect when u have gas tank off. Youtube petcock rebuild.

Nduetime - You probably already know this, but never raise the clear tubing while doing levels.Start again if you do raise by accident.

I believe I understand HOW to do the clear tube float level check but faultedgeologist has me confused. First, there's only two carbs, meaning only two drains and overflows. Second, there is only a nipple at the bowl overflow. The actual drain is a screw that feeds into the bowl. I was under the impression I need to remove screw and fill it with a tube of appropriate size, fill bowl and watch as fuel fills tube. Is this wrong?

Zyphyrrider, it was some tubing that came with a cheap single-person brake bleed kit. Measures 1/4" OD. Do I need 6mm aquarium tube?