frame bracing

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531blackbanshee wrote: thanks for the replies fella's.

so where is the line between enough extra gussets and overkill?

it seems most kits that have been available are always a few pieces different.

leon

having most of this bracing and having ridden on the track, i feel it depends on how u intend to ride.
on the street u dont need as much bracing, but once u hit the track u have a dilemma.
u need all the bracing u can get, but that adds weight. ideally on the track i feel u should use smaller tube as Foale suggests. on the track my kz is still loose compared to my cbr. but ofcourse,u can never expect to get as good as a modern bike .

sander,
kz250ltd,
thanks much for the addition to the thread and the awesome pics of your frames.
it will serve as a great reference for folks.you can see the pics of the extra braces and get the feedeback from the guys that have tested it. :evil:

that is the reason i tried to make the thread title easily searchable so we could all contribute and have a nice frame bracing resource to get the pics and testimonials from the pilots.

so if anybody else has some pics of frame bracing or some seat of the pants experience feel free to contribute here.

i have never braced a kz frame so now that i am trying to cut out the gussets it really gets you thinking about what you need and what you need access to and,
where to stop :pinch: .
because we all know what we need are some egli frames :whistle: :evil:









leon

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back in the late 80,s Brother and I meet a exchange student from Japan. My brother at the time and still does have a 78 kz 1000 mk11. This kid would of giving his life for the bike he wanted to buy it at what ever cost. any ways he told my brother that he could fix the bike to beat just about any bike on the street at the time. My brother and he work on the bike for 4 month and it turn out to be true.
Brother still has the bike and will not give or sell to me either. Student later found and bout a z1r fix it up and came looking for a race...he did not beat him and said he would be back but never did see him again.

show us some pics of your brothers bike. :evil:

sounds like something we would be interested in.

do you have any more pics of your bike?

cool story.

leon

i have pic,s i just need to look for them. i will ask my brother to email me current ones.

back to this subject....good that i ran in to this will start working on my bike in the next several weeks.

531blackbanshee wrote: here are the ones for the neck.these are made from .125 thick steel cut from rectangle so that i would not have to hammer the bends.

Leon, once you welded these in how did you paint behind the gusset on the right? The existing gussets on the frame would make it nearly impossible to coat the back side. Did you cut them out or just not care about it rusting?

doctorot,

i haven't welded those in,i sold them.

but,
my thought was to paint in behind them and paint the back of the gusset and then just clean the edges of the gusset and a thin strip on the frame to weld to.
then paint the outside and roll it.

it is kinda a captive area.

when the guys do the dimpled gussets down in the frame triangle below the side covers they have to have the same kinda problem getting paint all the way down inside there.

less than ideal for sure tho.

leon

Great thread 531. I like the gussets you build. I don't see a problem with an extrusion in the front frame braces. Saves weight, adds strength, and you can paint behind them then.

At the beginning of the thread, there is mention that the Japan guys don't weld to the plates to their frames. I'm thinking they hammer weld(forge)the plates in. Obviously that isn't an option for your average weekend warrior in his home shop.

Tig is by far the best process to weld these braces. Proficient welders can weld with anything, just look at the gasless welds that were pictured a page or two back.

Good choice on filler rod too Leon. I've known some builders to take a torch and draw the welded areas to around 4-600 degrees to temper the joints. I believe the AWS ER70S-2 filler takes care of any brittle joints created when welding CrMo.

Did I mention I like this thread.

Here is a couple good articles on welding CrMo:
www.netwelding.com/Heat_Treated_4130.htm

www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/welding-4130.html

just adding a few new pics i found on one of sanctuarys blogs.












leon

Obviously I am a frame bracing fan and a HUGE Sanctuary fan, but I got to say from seeing those last pics of the additional steering tube bracing, when is enough, enough? I mean at that point, just start with some DOM chrome moly or 1018 steel tubing and start from scratch! I can see addressing weak areas, but it looks like they are reinforcing their reinforcments!

Besides a full on, sticky race compound tired track bike, what chassis flex do you need to account for?

Cory