Just bought a Spectre from a friend, it has an issue with the starter.

Well, if it's that damper he's referring to, and it's the only thing in the exploded diagram that looks like it fits the bill, then I guess I can get the two smaller sizes and just see which one works. I mean, if he used one that's too thick, then I can rule out the thickest one right from the start.

Thanks so much for the help everyone!

A slipping clutch can be from improper adjustment or incorrect engine oil. The adjustment procedure is described in the fsm and must be followed exactly. The oil should meet JASO-MA.If it does, it will say so on the bottle. Low friction automotive oil is bad for the clutch.
Did you ask the mechanic to explain what he meant by “spinning back?”

wrote:

Well, if it's that damper he's referring to, and it's the only thing in the exploded diagram that looks like it fits the bill, then I guess I can get the two smaller sizes and just see which one works. I mean, if he used one that's too thick, then I can rule out the thickest one right from the start.

Thanks so much for the help everyone!
 

From my perspective having replaced rotors with broken magnets and cl-cl-clicking starter clutches more than once on my own 1100, it sounds like a good place to start...although it may be smart to get a few suggestions from additional members before tearing into it. 

Grab your phone.
Take a video of the starter gear assembly as you press the switch. You have to verify what exactly is wrong with it before you can fix it.
Just disengage the ignition and fuel to keep it from starting on you.

wrote:

A slipping clutch can be from improper adjustment or incorrect engine oil. The adjustment procedure is described in the fsm and must be followed exactly. The oil should meet JASO-MA.If it does, it will say so on the bottle. Low friction automotive oil is bad for the clutch.
Did you ask the mechanic to explain what he meant by “spinning back?”




 

I've already taken the clutch out of the '02 KZ-P, cleaned the friction discs, resoaked them, and replaced the oil with JASO MA-2 oil. Also the adjustment was the FIRST thing I checked.

I did ask him but he doesn't know much about Japanese bikes. He overspun a bearing, causing it to get rod knock, then replaced the crank shaft with one in good condition so it doesn't rod knock, and when he put it back together he also rebuilt the starter and the starter clutch and he doesn't know the correct term for the problem. Yesterday when he brought the bike over, a friend of his was there who knows KZs better than he does and said it's actually the starter clutch not the starter motor itself... I sent a text a little while ago trying to clarify if it is the rubber ring behind the fly wheel.

I'll take a video tomorrow, I'm charging the battery tonight to see how well it holds a charge. The battery was dead. This bike has a lot wrong with it, but it's mostly minor stuff like the service stand needing a new spring, and a bunch of electrical stuff needing to be reconnected after he put it back together after rebuilding the engine. Basically I'm having to deal with a minor project from a car mechanic who loves the bike but finally just said "fuck it, I know Harleys better so I'm going to stick to that"

(UPDATE)
He just texted me back, it is the rubber ring behind the flywheel that he says is too big. So there's the problem. I just need to know which one to buy, or I could get the two smaller of the three and see which one works. I just don't like the idea of replacing it, filling the oil back up, trying it out, draining the oil, replacing it again. He says he doesn't know which of the 3 dampers he used, just that it's the one that came with the crank shaft he bought, and he the original damper was too worn down to use.

wrote:

Thank you so much, DaveO and TexasKZ. I've got a hard copy of the factory service manual for the 1982-2005 KZ1000-P. As well as 2 Clymers for that which includes chapters for the 1100 I've got, and an older Clymer for non-police 1000 and 1100.

I'll download the PDF. What I've got here is the shaft model though. It probably doesn't matter for the starter though.

If the cam cap torque spec is misprinted, what should it be?

(edit)

Just looked up the rotor holder tool on ebay... the only one I can find is NOS, for like $200 plus shipping! There are cheaper "universal" ones that claim to fit the bike, but they look entirely different like this  www.z1enterprises.com/yamaha-xs650-clutc...et-holding-tool.html Would that be an acceptable substitute? I don't see how it would work anything like the one you showed, but I've only ever even been in this part of the police version of the J model engine once to replace the stator (bigger stator than the standard J stator, and I know this cuz I bought a J stator and it was smaller than what was in there, so I had to buy a second, police version). I just don't think I can get the money for the OEM tool saved up before it disappears from ebay.

The removal tool isn't too badly priced. Is the Motion Pro one ok? www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0116-Flywhe...ternal/dp/B009J7O7J0


 

Where did this information originate?  I may be mistaken, but Kawasaki specifications seem to be correct for everything else. 
 

wrote:

wrote:

Thank you so much, DaveO and TexasKZ. I've got a hard copy of the factory service manual for the 1982-2005 KZ1000-P. As well as 2 Clymers for that which includes chapters for the 1100 I've got, and an older Clymer for non-police 1000 and 1100.

I'll download the PDF. What I've got here is the shaft model though. It probably doesn't matter for the starter though.

If the cam cap torque spec is misprinted, what should it be?

(edit)

Just looked up the rotor holder tool on ebay... the only one I can find is NOS, for like $200 plus shipping! There are cheaper "universal" ones that claim to fit the bike, but they look entirely different like this  www.z1enterprises.com/yamaha-xs650-clutc...et-holding-tool.html Would that be an acceptable substitute? I don't see how it would work anything like the one you showed, but I've only ever even been in this part of the police version of the J model engine once to replace the stator (bigger stator than the standard J stator, and I know this cuz I bought a J stator and it was smaller than what was in there, so I had to buy a second, police version). I just don't think I can get the money for the OEM tool saved up before it disappears from ebay.

The removal tool isn't too badly priced. Is the Motion Pro one ok? www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0116-Flywhe...ternal/dp/B009J7O7J0

 

Where did this information originate?  I may be mistaken, but Kawasaki specifications seem to be correct for everything else. 

 

It originated here, or at least that's where I saw it.
kzrider.com/forum/forum-index/4-electric...arter?start=0#857550

wrote:

wrote:

wrote:

Thank you so much, DaveO and TexasKZ. I've got a hard copy of the factory service manual for the 1982-2005 KZ1000-P. As well as 2 Clymers for that which includes chapters for the 1100 I've got, and an older Clymer for non-police 1000 and 1100.

I'll download the PDF. What I've got here is the shaft model though. It probably doesn't matter for the starter though.

If the cam cap torque spec is misprinted, what should it be?

(edit)

Just looked up the rotor holder tool on ebay... the only one I can find is NOS, for like $200 plus shipping! There are cheaper "universal" ones that claim to fit the bike, but they look entirely different like this  www.z1enterprises.com/yamaha-xs650-clutc...et-holding-tool.html Would that be an acceptable substitute? I don't see how it would work anything like the one you showed, but I've only ever even been in this part of the police version of the J model engine once to replace the stator (bigger stator than the standard J stator, and I know this cuz I bought a J stator and it was smaller than what was in there, so I had to buy a second, police version). I just don't think I can get the money for the OEM tool saved up before it disappears from ebay.

The removal tool isn't too badly priced. Is the Motion Pro one ok? www.amazon.com/Motion-Pro-08-0116-Flywhe...ternal/dp/B009J7O7J0


 

Where did this information originate?  I may be mistaken, but Kawasaki specifications seem to be correct for everything else. 

 

It originated here, or at least that's where I saw it.
kzrider.com/forum/forum-index/4-electric...arter?start=0#857550
 

Saw that too, among numerous other places and times here over the years...
Personally, I think it just may be a myth.  Lol! 

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/491063-cyclin...m-cap-bolts-stripped

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/536627-kz1100-cam-shaft-loose

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/611156-1982-k...series-cylinder-head

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/557244-gpz-11...t-torque-specs-again

Ok, so... Not knowing which one to get, I got all 3 variants of that rubber damper that goes behind the flywheel after confirming with Possum (the friend who sold me the bike) that it was in fact the rubber damper causing the problem. I couldn't figure out which ones are which sizes, so... all 3... Two of them are NOS, I can't find a NOS for the third one. The last two digits on the part numbers are 29, 30, and 31. I got 29 and 31 NOS, 30 is used. I really hope one of the NOS ones is the one needed. I highly prefer NOS parts where I can get them. It's a lot like having the right tools.

Also purchased some Caltric cork based friction plates and steels for my '02 KZ-P. I know, I know, it's cheap and probably won't last. It doesn't need to last. It needs to get the clutch working until at least January when I can afford to get the OEM friction plates. I don't like to screw around with budget parts. Budget parts are like duck tape and zip ties... temporary only (unless it works).

wrote:

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/491063-cyclin...m-cap-bolts-stripped

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/536627-kz1100-cam-shaft-loose

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/611156-1982-k...series-cylinder-head

kzrider.com/forum/2-engine/557244-gpz-11...t-torque-specs-again
 

There should have been an official Kawasaki bulletin release about this issue, and correction made in the manuals over the years.
Kawasaki Heavy Industries, right?

wrote:

There should have been an official Kawasaki bulletin release about this issue, and correction made in the manuals over the years.Kawasaki Heavy Industries, right? 

Maybe, but not necessarily... from what I can see from the citations, the relevant engines were only available for a couple of years before being either discontinued or switched over entirely to Police use only (as in the J model) which has its own service manual, but it's only a supplement to the base model manual, not the full manual... A as a police engine the J model was in production until 2005... Come to think of it, I have hard copy of that... one sec... 

Ok, so it has the cylinder head cover torque at 104 in-lb, but for the cam cap and everything else it just tells you what page to look at in the base model, which it weirdly gives as KZ1000-K and not KZ1000-J...

So if there is a misprint they didn't even catch it as recently as June 2002 which is when my manual was printed. And you'd think that police departments wouldn't put up with a manual that tells you to strip the threads on critical components. Also I'm not sure which Texas meant, the Camshaft Bearing Cap Bolts or the Camshaft chain tensioner cap. They're listed as 12 and 20 ft-lb respectively by the manual he says has misprinted numbers for the "cam cap torque spec." It also lists the cylinder head bolts as 104 in-lb same as the police model service manual, which is weird that it'd agree given all the "refer to base model manual page x" in the police model manual.

There is a guy about 15 miles from me with a service garage and he specializes in KZ1000s, and I can ask him... Come to think of it, I need to go get dressed and go see him anyway and ask him about what to use for flywheel rotor holder tool. I'll ask him about it while I'm down there.

Lastly is this something I even need to be cognizant of if it's true, or was it a general warning? I ask cuz aren't the cams on top and this problem is on the bottom of the engine behind the generator cover?