Better Than Nothing---The rebirth of a Superbike.

577nitro wrote:

Dr. Gamma wrote:

DOHC wrote:

Dr. Gamma wrote: Yes I did. # 000062.

Hey, I know we bug you to death on the S1, because they have reached mythical status, what were the internal changes to the engine? What was done to the crank and rods any thing? Were the heads ported at all? Bigger valves? What was the cam profile as compared to the stock one? Did they make any changes to the frame geometry?
I heard somewhere that the head angle could be adjusted is that true?

Speaking of the Vetter bike, there is a guy who collects old race bikes and he has the vetter bike. I've spoken to him a couple times, nice guy has a unbelievable collection of honda superbikes raced by the factory guys at the time, Bubba, Flying Fred, Fast Freddie. I think he has a S1 or part of one.

This is a short list of S1 motor highlights that I can remember.
The Hy-Vo cam chain was a work of art. Each link plate was hand polished to a mirror finish then the chain was assembled!! The crank was a pork chop design, not full circle crank throws. It also had polished rods. The trans was a close ratio box. The clutch was out of a Kz1100 shaft motor. A fancy self contained magneto CDI ignition. No battery needed. Dual spark plugs per cylinder head. Forged pistons with like 11.7 to 1 compression. The motor used long bolts instead of studs to hold the cylinder, and cylinder head to cases. It made motor assembly real easy instead of working around the studs. 650 style valve spring retainers and buckets. It was a bath tub design head like what came on the '83/'84 GPz1100. Ports were cleaned up, but not really ported. Valve sizes were same as the '83/'84 GPz head. Cams were real close to Yoshimura Super Bonneville cams. Just under .400 lift.

You are talking about Brian O'Shea. Nice collection of old Superbikes. I sold him some trick parts dirt cheap many years ago.

[/quote]You are talking about Brian O'Shea. Nice collection of old Superbikes. I sold him some trick parts dirt cheap many years ago.[/quote]


Yeah thats him, those early Interceptors are really cool, I've had a number of them. One of my project bikes I want to build is a vf1000f, or vf1000r retro mod.

Thanks for the breakdown on the S1, I had no idea about the internal engine nods. I guess polishing the cam chain keeps it from exploding at above redline pulls.
Was the crank polished as well as the rods?

Were any parts shot peened? I know that has the same effect on surface imperfections. Polishing looks better for sure!

JS-

Dr. Gamma wrote: 4130 chromemoly (or how ever you spell it!!!) is far superior to mild steel in many ways. Before I built my KZ1000, I used mild steel for all of my brackets. They would last a while, then they would fracture, not at the weld, or close to the weld. The bracket would develop a bunch of spider web cracks on the bracket. When I got hooked up with a welder extraordinaire, he explained why I should be using 4130 over mild steel. He laughed at me for using mild steel for brackets. He was also an excellent fabricator, and I learned a lot from him by just by watching him work with metal. Once I started making my brackets and other things out of 4130, no more spider web cracks or bracket breaking in two!!!!

I might explain it wrong on why I say 4130 is lighter, but like you say its lighter because you can use thinner pieces. I made my battery box out of like .063 thick flat stock. Since I built my KZ1000, I have not had any bracket or other pieces I made out of 4130 break or even crack. The factory steel plates that mount the coils kept breaking into pieces a few times during the season. I finally had to make copies of those brackets out of 4130, and guess what..... they never ever broke again!!!

Chromemoly is a bitch to work with. I was buying drill bits by the boxfull. Even cutting it was a pain. Then to bend it you had to get it cherry red before you bent it. One nice thing was it welded up super nice. I would never ever make any type of bracket out of anything but 4130..

What was causing all the cracks with your frame?

Chromoly is glorious; I use chromoly barrels for all of my double rifle builds, they are super strong, damn near indestructible. A 1/8 inch cylinder is good to over 100k psi.

577nitro <<<< my biggest build yet

I only broke one frame tube completely through on the Superbike. All the long periods of high RPM's and cornering loads might have something to do with it. Out of the track my Superbike never dropped under 6 grand or so the whole time it was out there. I had a few cracks around the stock motor mounts that I had to have fixed over the years. But the metal plates where the coils mounted started cracking the very first year I raced the bike. Once I duplicated those brackets in 4130, and had them heliarc welded to the frame, no more cracks!!!! 4130 has like a springiness to the metal. Watch a Top Fuel car bow as it goes down the track, thats what I mean. Plus the lower heat from heliarc welding has something to do with it too!!! I ain't no metallurgist, but I know once I started making all my brackets and things out of 4130, and them heliarc welded never had another broken bracket or found any cracks in them!!!!

Old Kz's never die, they just turn into race bikes!!!!

More photos of the Vintage Superbike class that they race in Japan.

Like I said, Old Kz's never die, they just turn into racebikes!!!!

I've seen videos of these race's pretty coo bikes.

I've been riding my zrx1100 and my 81 gpz1100 to work and comparing the two. I noticed the zrx has a pretty harsh suspension....and its been upgraded significantly by the previous owner. RaceTek gold valve in the front along with springs, and ohleins in the rear. I ride over a really bumpy road that is being repaired, the zrx jar's my teeth on this road, bouncing all over the place. The gpz just floats over these , so much more comfortable. It handles very well to, really neutrally balanced, surprising for such a heavy bike. I tweeked the suspension some but not much; oil , springs, brace, thats it. KYB's from the ZRX in the rear.

My friend back in Chicago sent me this photo of the bike I got the "Better Than Nothing" saying from. The KZ in the photo is of Dave Kaler's Superbike he raced back in the heyday of AMA Superbike racing. There was the VETTER Superbikes back then, and there was the BETTER THAN NOTHING Superbike.

We were talking about how the cost of road racing has now priced it self out of reach of most people who used to race back in the 70's and 80's!!! Back then a pair of Goodyear slicks cost like 150 or 160 bucks to my door!!!! Now a set of Avon race tires set me back about 500 BUCKS to my door!!!! 110 leaded fuel was like 3.50 a gallon back then, now a gallon is 12 BUCKS!!! As in this photo most racers showed up to race in a van filled with two bikes, tools, fuel, and everything else you needed for the race weekend. Now it seems you have to have a 25 to 30 foot trailer with air conditioning and satellite dish, and oh yea a 50 grand pick up truck or SUV to pull it!!!! AND THATS JUST TO GO VINTAGE RACING!!!!!!! Oh I forgot about the 600 buck pair of tire warmers, and the needed generator to power them.

End of rant!!!

Dave Kaler's KZ1000 Superbike, with George Nolan's TZ250 in the back ground, and their fancy high tech hauler!!!

Interestingly enough, $150 in 1975 is worth $724.34 today

I know I have better pictures from Road America somewhere but this is all I could on file at the moment.
Eddies van had a box on it

bluej58 wrote: I know I have better pictures from Road America somewhere but this is all I could on file at the moment.
Eddies van had a box on it

No box van for me, just a van, race bike, toolbox, and boxes of parts!!! Didn't even have a canopy for many years either!!!

Most racers except the few factory riders came to the track in mostly vans back then.

But we came to race, not be stylish.

Then and now