TOPIC:

Brand New Points so the heels are not worn down.

Points ordered thru Z!Ent. Ordered them correctly but could check with the "old" ones to compare?

Mark and Hole on advancer lined up perfectly even though mine is different than the 2 pictured. Says 005 and only 1 mark to the right of 4 or 3?

kzdcw wrote: Brand New Points so the heels are not worn down.

Points ordered thru Z!Ent. Ordered them correctly but could check with the "old" ones to compare?

Mark and Hole on advancer lined up perfectly even though mine is different than the 2 pictured. Says 005 and only 1 mark to the right of 4 or 3?

Following images are from Z1 Enterprises.
If they match the parts at hand, I suspect the parts at hand are correct for your 1977 KZ1000.








Good Fortune!

kzdcw wrote: Patton & Ed, It's a No Go I adjusted the points gap exactly at the widest gap to a loose .014 and no go .016", so I know the gap is correct even after rotating crank clockwise several times. Have not touched point gap adjustment again.

So on to Static Timing adjustment. Set 1&4 at "F" mark with pointer. Points don't open until almost #1 mark on ignition advancer plate with timing adjustment plates ( 2 screws ) adjusted all the way in the slot to get the heels of the points touching the ignition advancer raised lobe portion. I even adjusted the back plate ( 3 screws ) at max too to get as close to the heels of the points. Points 2 & 3 has about the same results. I understand how it works which made me wonder if the cam lobe of the advancer was worn down, because there's No Way at the "F" mark on either points that they will open with all the adjustments at the points timing plates or back plate set at max.

So I pulled the ignition advancer and one thing I can tell you is the the cam lobe of the advancer has a lot of grooves in it that you can feel with your finger even though they appear as not being too deep.

My assumption is that this advancer is to worn down to much to make the timing adjustment correctly.

Can you compensate this wear by elongating the slots in the back plate or adjuster plates? Or is it better to find another ignition advancer?

I purchased parts from Brian on this site before. Maybe he has one or someone else that I can try?

It is possible the cam is on there backwards. Try switching it 180* to see if that works. I've been reading this thread but had nothing to add to the good responses you've had. I will say this, I've set my points by eye so they open just at the F mark without setting the gap just to get home. I have a Dyna S now but carry my points plate and cam just in case. It's been three years and I've replaced one rotor for $25, no problems otherwise.
Steve

I had a similar experience where I could not get the static setting correct no matter what I tried. The points were against each other with no room for further adjustment. Keep in mind that the static setting is still only a rough setting to get the bike running . True timing will be done with the timing light. In desperation, I got the static as close as I could and started the bike. I had to fiddle with base and individual point plate locations, but I was eventually able to set both by the timing light.

Are you using a digital or analog meter? The manual says to use an analog meter and watch for the needle to "flicker". Digital meters don't flicker and I don't believe you can get an accurate reading. I used a good quality digital meter (Fluke 77). If the meter showed opening at say 90 degrees, reversing the rotation should have shown closed again immediately at 89 degrees. That didn't happen. It took 4-5 degrees of reverse rotation, back to maybe 85 degrees,before the meter showed 0 ohms (closed) again. If I then did normal rotation, the points wouldn't open until 90 again. There was a 4-5 degree window where the points could read both open and closed on the meter. That's a pretty good spread for timing purposes. I eventually used the mid-point (87.5 degrees in this example) for a static setting.
Maybe Ed's suggestion of disconnecting at the coils might help with this issue. I'll definitely try it next time.

MDZ1rider wrote: Are you using a digital or analog meter? The manual says to use an analog meter and watch for the needle to "flicker". Digital meters don't flicker and I don't believe you can get an accurate reading. .......

EXCELLENT POINT! My experience has been that my digital mulimeter doesn't respond quickly enough when checking for the instant that the contact points open. I need to specify ANALOG meter to my text because the needle in an analog meter jumps the instant continuity is broken. Thanks for the correction. Ed

650ed wrote:

MDZ1rider wrote: . . . use an analog meter and watch for the needle to "flicker". . . .

. . . the needle in an analog meter jumps the instant continuity is broken. . . .

Thanks, Ed!

And YES, the F-mark should align at the instant continuity is broken, which is the moment the contacts begin to separate.

Separation (i.e., opening) of the contacts interrupts grounding of the coil primary winding through closed points which separation/opening is the event that causes the coil to fire.

The initial separation of the contacts is sometimes almost imperceptible to the human eye. Which makes me suspect in the case at hand that maybe the contacts had in fact already separated at alignment of the F-Mark.

Good Fortune!

Finally able to get back on the site, couldn't for a couple of days. Anyway to answer the above questions:

Correct Points as pictured above.

Ignition Advancer same as last Pix and reference mark and alignment hole line up correctly so orientating it 180 degrees would definitely put raised shoulder of cam further away from heel of points.

Using A New Analog meter made by Vellman AVM 360. Even has an audible continuity buzzer.

So there it is, everything correct but again "F" mark not lining up correctly with pointer? That's why I thought that maybe widening the slotting adjustments for the timing plates or back plate would allow for more adjustment of the heel of points to get closer to the ignition advancer raised portion on the cam lobe.

Forget the dwell. Set the points at the F mark and see if it will run. I suspect the advance is the wrong one for that bike.
Steve

swest wrote: Forget the dwell. Set the points at the F mark and see if it will run. I suspect the advance is the wrong one for that bike.
Steve

If he sets the points at the F mark the points will be wide open (0.35mm) instead of just breaking open at the F mark. That then means the points will be breaking open well before the F mark (in fact, they may never close). Do you think that is a good idea? Ed

I've done it on the side of the road. If they just open at the F mark, they will again 360* later.
Steve

I agree. The points should just open at the F mark. I misunderstood and thought you were advising to set the gap (0.35mm) at the F mark which would make the points too far apart. ed