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Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
- Rolf1976_KZ900
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15 May 2024 02:30 #899078
by Rolf1976_KZ900
Replied by Rolf1976_KZ900 on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
.I started installing the boyer bransden kit yesterday it has a microprosessor and coils included.
Im very dense when it comes to electronicks so i dont understand some of the instruction manual for the boyer kit ,but started the work anyway.
The instructions says to remove the advancer unit and then install the timingplate and then the rotor.I tried that first ,but that must be wrong because then the rotor gets jammed into the timingplate. So i installed the advace unit back in and the timingplate on outside and then the rotor and the 13mm bolt.
The manual says to make a mark at 40 degree BDC and twist the rotor 320 degree and then make a mark at top TDC on the engine case and use that mark when timing the engine at full advance at 5000 rpm with a timinglight.
When doing it like i have by not removing the advancer unit i dont understand why i need to make a mark like the manual says,because i already have the F and full advance marks on the advancer ??. Anyway i installed it with the advacer unit because that is the only way it is possible . After some fiddling with installing the new coils temporarly and wires also temporarly i checked sparks on all 4 plugs simutaniusly.The spark was very strong and white .Then tried to fire up the bike and it fired up right away. One thing i noticed was that i had no choke on.I always had to use some choke to get it started.This time i needed no choke and the idle rised fast up to 3000-4000 rpm !! so i had to adjust it down .I think that is a sign that the bike had weak spark before and lots of fuel did not get ignited.The exhaust sounded much more crispy and strong/louder and when i held my hand over the end of mufflers i could feel it was a stronger pressure than before when i done this test.
To be continued...
Im very dense when it comes to electronicks so i dont understand some of the instruction manual for the boyer kit ,but started the work anyway.
The instructions says to remove the advancer unit and then install the timingplate and then the rotor.I tried that first ,but that must be wrong because then the rotor gets jammed into the timingplate. So i installed the advace unit back in and the timingplate on outside and then the rotor and the 13mm bolt.
The manual says to make a mark at 40 degree BDC and twist the rotor 320 degree and then make a mark at top TDC on the engine case and use that mark when timing the engine at full advance at 5000 rpm with a timinglight.
When doing it like i have by not removing the advancer unit i dont understand why i need to make a mark like the manual says,because i already have the F and full advance marks on the advancer ??. Anyway i installed it with the advacer unit because that is the only way it is possible . After some fiddling with installing the new coils temporarly and wires also temporarly i checked sparks on all 4 plugs simutaniusly.The spark was very strong and white .Then tried to fire up the bike and it fired up right away. One thing i noticed was that i had no choke on.I always had to use some choke to get it started.This time i needed no choke and the idle rised fast up to 3000-4000 rpm !! so i had to adjust it down .I think that is a sign that the bike had weak spark before and lots of fuel did not get ignited.The exhaust sounded much more crispy and strong/louder and when i held my hand over the end of mufflers i could feel it was a stronger pressure than before when i done this test.
To be continued...
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- Warren3200gt
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15 May 2024 03:18 #899080
by Warren3200gt
Replied by Warren3200gt on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
On Boyer systems the ignition advancer is in the electronic gizmo box so the original mechanical advancer needs to be removed.
Its around 40 years since I fitted a boyer system but they are far more reliable and versatile than dyna systems. They have the advantage of the pick ups having a heat protection circuit which coupled with a wider voltage tolerance make them very reliable.
The two things which kill dyna's are high voltage or excess heat.
Its around 40 years since I fitted a boyer system but they are far more reliable and versatile than dyna systems. They have the advantage of the pick ups having a heat protection circuit which coupled with a wider voltage tolerance make them very reliable.
The two things which kill dyna's are high voltage or excess heat.
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15 May 2024 04:13 #899084
by Rolf1976_KZ900
Replied by Rolf1976_KZ900 on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
Thanks for information Warren i have so far (last evening) got the bike started and did an attempt to use a timinglight and time it to the advancemark on the advancer that the manual says to remove.It worked okay ,but i was stressed and difficult to focus on the job because of neighbors and kids flying around my ears making lots of noise and the baking sun did not make thinks better. But so far so god .Got it timed rughly at 5000rpm on the advance mark.I did not ride the bike last evening.
some things that concerns now are that the 13mm long bolt maybe is not tightened good enough. I remeber a tread i read earlier on this forum that that bolt is fragile and that the engine must not be turned over with that bolt but only by using the 17mm crank position nut .I think it was something that that 13mm bolt can snap or stretch or something?? can someone confirm??
The boyer manual says to give the rotor a little punch to make marks on the rotor and that can be filed or drilled ??
Then Late last night i started to serch more on how to install the boyer and found a video on youtube. In the video the guy has filed out the marks on the rotor i was chocked to see that .That can not be acurate or needed?? here is the vid :
My plan is to use blue locktite on the 13mm bolt ,but i wish i had tought of that before because now i have to take things off and timed again.
One other concern is : what to do when doing valve adjustments ? then i have to turn the engine a little backwards using that 13mm bolt that may come lose .I guess i might get away with turning the rear wheel ,but that is fiddly.
I want to take a testride today ,but not sure i will take the chance before i find out more about the 13mm bolt it may come lose and then the rotor also come lose and timing is messed up. I think i just use blue loctite on it .
some things that concerns now are that the 13mm long bolt maybe is not tightened good enough. I remeber a tread i read earlier on this forum that that bolt is fragile and that the engine must not be turned over with that bolt but only by using the 17mm crank position nut .I think it was something that that 13mm bolt can snap or stretch or something?? can someone confirm??
The boyer manual says to give the rotor a little punch to make marks on the rotor and that can be filed or drilled ??
Then Late last night i started to serch more on how to install the boyer and found a video on youtube. In the video the guy has filed out the marks on the rotor i was chocked to see that .That can not be acurate or needed?? here is the vid :
My plan is to use blue locktite on the 13mm bolt ,but i wish i had tought of that before because now i have to take things off and timed again.
One other concern is : what to do when doing valve adjustments ? then i have to turn the engine a little backwards using that 13mm bolt that may come lose .I guess i might get away with turning the rear wheel ,but that is fiddly.
I want to take a testride today ,but not sure i will take the chance before i find out more about the 13mm bolt it may come lose and then the rotor also come lose and timing is messed up. I think i just use blue loctite on it .
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16 May 2024 12:39 #899133
by Rolf1976_KZ900
Replied by Rolf1976_KZ900 on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
I want to check the killswitch before i ride the bike again .I suspect it is the reason for the jerking and missfiring.The switch is sloppy .Can i just pry off the top of the switch??
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16 May 2024 12:57 #899135
by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
You could just connect a voltmeter to the original coil feed (I believe you are using it to switch a bypass relay now) then wiggle the switch and the wiring with the switch in the on position and the ignition on and see if the voltmeter fluctuates (don't leave it on for too long or the coils will overheat)
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16 May 2024 13:07 - 16 May 2024 13:10 #899137
by Rolf1976_KZ900
It is the picture abowe that is upside down and named fig 4. the coils are new special coils made to work with the boyer microprosessor. I have timed the with a strobe light ,but started thinking that
this mess is because of a bad killswitch.Can i do the test on the coils that is mounted now?
Replied by Rolf1976_KZ900 on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
Thanks Wookie To be honest im not sure what im doing but i have used the alternative wiring diagram that uses a direct wire with a 10amp fuse going direct to battery positive from one of the coilsYou could just connect a voltmeter to the original coil feed (I believe you are using it to switch a bypass relay now) then wiggle the switch and the wiring with the switch in the on position and the ignition on and see if the voltmeter fluctuates (don't leave it on for too long or the coils will overheat)
It is the picture abowe that is upside down and named fig 4. the coils are new special coils made to work with the boyer microprosessor. I have timed the with a strobe light ,but started thinking that
this mess is because of a bad killswitch.Can i do the test on the coils that is mounted now?
Last edit: 16 May 2024 13:10 by Rolf1976_KZ900.
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16 May 2024 13:10 #899139
by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
The red/yellow wire that powers the coils and the module
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16 May 2024 13:15 - 16 May 2024 13:17 #899140
by Rolf1976_KZ900
Replied by Rolf1976_KZ900 on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
Okay i see what i can find out with a voltmeter. But i wanted to take the top turnable knob of the switch off to se it it is damaged inside. Is that possible?
Last edit: 16 May 2024 13:17 by Rolf1976_KZ900.
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16 May 2024 13:28 #899141
by Wookie58
Replied by Wookie58 on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
I'm not sure you will be able to see anything just taking the Knob off ?Okay i see what i can find out with a voltmeter. But i wanted to take the top turnable knob of the switch off to se it it is damaged inside. Is that possible?
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16 May 2024 13:32 #899142
by Warren3200gt
Replied by Warren3200gt on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
You can but from inside the switch gear. Split the two halves and you see 2 wires connected to the back of the switch. Between them you'll see a shaft with an E clip. Remove the E clip and the turn able knob will pull off. Be aware there is a spring and a ball bearing under the know which will be easily lost as it comes apart.
Chances are you'll find the plate in there is in several pieces and they are not obtainable as a new seperate part.
Chances are you'll find the plate in there is in several pieces and they are not obtainable as a new seperate part.
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16 May 2024 13:38 #899143
by Rolf1976_KZ900
Replied by Rolf1976_KZ900 on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
Thanks Warren i will test that tomorrow . And Wookie i want to take the top knob off because it is sloppy and lose so i think Warren is right that there is worn out metal filamentknobs or somthing shorting in there by wibration. I was hoping there is a way to repair that ,but if damaged i try to find another switch.
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16 May 2024 13:50 #899144
by Warren3200gt
Replied by Warren3200gt on topic Very frustrated now bike runs bad again
You can easily bypass that kill switch by connecting the two wires that go to the back off it. That will permanently render it as though in the Run position.
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