Starter Clutch? (ZN700)

Hail and well met. Sorry I didn't do a meet and greet in the "new members" section, but I don't even OWN a bike yet and am under the gun to find out if I should swoop in on this '85 ZN700.

Long story short, I'm looking at a ZN700 and the only real problem with it is that the starter clutch is shot.

I'm assuming I need a new one. Here's the kicker -- I "know" almost no practical knowledge of engines. Yes, I understand the principles of operation and have experience working with engines (I changed a bum starter in my car, swapped out a cracked radiator, etc). Point is that I can fix anything with a Haynes or Clymer or Chilton manual. Problem is that I don't know what the starter clutch is or how to get to it or where to find one.

My questions are as follows:

1) What model bikes have parts that are interchangable? (or part number would work as well)

2) Would I be better off (or would it rememdy the issue) if I just got a new starter alltogether?

3) Is this going to be substantially expensive to deter me from buying the bike?

Yes, I have searched this forum for "ZN700" and read every thread. I apologize for any perceived "shortness" on my part, but I'm excited and time is of the essence.

The motor is pretty much the same as the 650 and 750 fours, and the starter clutch is not on the starter but inside the motor mounted on the engine countershaft.
I believe that starter clutch rebuild kits are available. Z1 Enterprises is a good place to start your search for parts.

Try a search for starter clutch, both here and in the Archives.

Welcome to KZr Sedodes.

I'd recommend obtaining either a Clymers shop manual, or Kawi manual (actually the Kawi manual is two. The 1st covers similarities in the KZ750, and the supplement covers the ZN model-specific items).

My first question would be what leads you to believe that the starter clutch is bad?
Is this what the current owner of the bike stated is wrong?
What are the symptoms or known problem(s) with the starting system?
I don't want to guess, but if it's slow to crank it could be as simple as a loose connection/corroded battery cable, or just a worn out battery.
FWIW, the starter clutch can be accessed and removed by first removing the exhaust pipes and then the oil pan. And it's not always necessary to replace the starter clutch assy (unless it's trashed of course), as there are rebuild kits available = $$$ saved!

Like steell stated, the basic engine design is loosely based on the KZ650/KZ750's, and a good portion of mechanical info related to them will apply to the ZN700 as well.
I have these threads bookmarked in my profile on the now archived site:
Starter clutch fix
Oil pump refitting
They should give you a good idea of what a starter clutch rebuild entails. Credit goes to OnkelB for his posting of the repair procedure and part list.

As far as your other questions go:

1) Kawi only made this particular model of ZN in '84 and '85 (they also made a ZN750, ZN1100, and the water-cooled ZN1300 6-cylinder touring model), and quite a few parts are model specific to this bike only. It doesn't mean that parts from another model Kawi won't fit, it just means that they may not be a direct fit and will require a little fabricating to fit/function correctly.

2) Refer to starter clutch rebuild info already given.

3) The starter clutch repair (if actually needed) will set you back a mere $30 for the kit (NEW copper exhaust gaskets will also be needed) and what ever time you invest in doing the repair.
Basically most of us rate an older KZ or similar bikes value at about $1 per CC of engine size. Obviously the overall condition of the bike will vary this (worn tires/brakes, faded paint/damaged body work, etc), and give you leverage to bargain the asking price down a little lower.

I just finished restoring my '84 ZN700, and am totally happy in how it rides and looks!
Pics of my restored ZN700

Post edited by: RetroRiceRocketRider, at: 2006/03/25 13:08

Okay guys, thanks for the info and the warm welcome to a bike newbie Dunno if it's blasphemy to mention that I was also looking at an '84 Honda Shadow with a leaky cam seal (whatever that is) and a sticky throttle (which I've had to fix on my dirtbike last year) so I'm trying to decide. I'll admit that the Shadow's technical info sang to me when I researched it and have been looking at Shadows for about 4 months now... found the ZN more or less by luck.

UPDATE: Got the bike for $550.

I'm not planning on making this bike ten kinds of cherry, I'm just looking for a good first streetbike. I'm more into the sportbike look, to be honest, but once I got on one it felt like the friggin' thing was trying to get rid of me. Looks be damned, I want something I'm comfortable on. That said, when I saw this ZN the look of it grabbed me. Don't know why exactly (I think it was the gas tank and the price combo) but I literally said, "Wow."

This is the link for the eBay listing of the ZN700 I just bought

Yes, the seller mentioned the starter clutch is bad. The starter doesn't always catch (I initially thought it was a dead spot, same problem I fixed with my car) but if it does catch or you push start it the bike fires right up. After it starts you can hear a rattling until the bike is warmed up.

The starter clutch fix looks complex. That's a good thing instead of a problem, actually... I have a mysterious aptitude for (and take enjoyment in) repairing machines, and my father's been wrenching on bikes for decades so I'm sure he'll supervise a weekend's worth of tinkering and profanity.

After this post I'm going to order a shop manual.

The problem is that I'm unable to find a starter clutch -- tried Z1 and they don't seem to have any. Anyone know a good Kawi shop with an 800 telephone that knows their vintage stuff and can give me a parts number on this thing? I'm quite an accomplished geek and can find anything on the internet; my suspicion is that the starter clutch is common to a bunch of models and since the '85 ZN is somewhat oddball (not on NADA or bikez.com) it's just not on the "compatibility list."

Had the same problem with my '91 Nissan NX when I was looking for a starter. Luckily car-part.com has a great universal parts reference. Where's motorcycle-part.com?!

Post edited by: sedodes, at: 2006/03/25 15:22

Z1 Enterprises may not have those parts listed on the site, but if you check with Jeff Saunders (he's the site owner and a member here) I'm almost certain he can get what you need....and usually cheaper than through a Kawi "stealership" too!

That ZN in the auction is pretty danged nice (and original!) looking, and at a really fair price.
Congrats on snagging her up!

If you need any info/tips/tricks on getting it roadworthy and in to shape, hit me up.
I don't claim to be an expert, but after having restored mine I know every little nook and cranny there is on it now!

Post edited by: RetroRiceRocketRider, at: 2006/03/25 15:30

Thanks 4R, I'll be sure to contact Jeff. And thanks for your offer of help BTW, I forgot to mention how nice the pics of your ZN are -- how much/what work did you have to do to restore it?

I'm glad my purchase is approved of. I'd be a bit disheartened if insults and derrision were the elicited responses.

I read the info on the starter clutch repair kits, and the "ooga" sound symptom doesn't seem to jive with a "rattling" sound described in the auction. Any theories?

If nothing else I may just use the money I "saved" on this bike and take it in for the repair. I'd budgeted about $1000 for a bike, and considering that helmets and a windshield (and mybe bags) aren't going to eat up all of the other $400 it may be worth it to have the work bought and paid for and guaranteed. I love DIY work, but I don't know the risk-to-reward ratio on this project. Just because I got the bike for $500 doesn't mean that's all it's worth to me

Welcome aboard. That is a fine looking machine.

You can get actual Kawasaki part numbers from Buy Kawasaki.com and get into the Owner Info section (second line of the main page along the top) and the pop-down menu will have Part Diagrams at the left end. You can drill down through the menus and look at all the parts diagrams for your bike. I print of my own parts manuals on the cheap this way (zoom the pic a few times, right-click in the picture frame and select print, then do the same for the lower frame which has all the parts numbers and descriptions).

Recently someone reported that a draggy starter with dirty or worn bushings can keep the internal clutch from engaging properly. It's much easier to get at the starter than the clutch so you might look there first.

HTH,

- Nate >>

Sedodes wrote:

Had the same problem with my '91 Nissan NX when I was looking for a starter. Luckily car-part.com has a great universal parts reference. Where's motorcycle-part.com?! <br><br>Post edited by: sedodes, at: 2006/03/25 15:22

Ask, and ye shall receive. :whistle:

cycle-parts.com

Actually there are quite a few links to suppliers listed here on this site.
Just select the Links button at the top of the page, and will lead you to a list of suppliers, mechanics and references to other things.

Thanks for the compliments on my ZN resto, but I can't accept all the credit.
Another member here, Mark Wing, did the awesome paint job on her. Plus all the advise (and listening to me whine when things weren't going so smoothly at times during the resto) from all the members here helped me along, and also in keeping my sanity! :silly:

I think the biggest hurdle(s) I encountered was finding NOS parts on eBay that are model-specific to this bike (the handlebar switch assys for example).
Kawi still offers a lot of NOS parts for the ZN700, but I went the bargain route and made some really good scores on eBay on a LOT of NOS items.

I just re-read the details in the auction listing on your bike, and there was one thing that kind of stood out from the rest...Once started, you can hear the starter clutch parts rattling around—it goes away after the bike is warmed up
Now I'm not 100% certain, but I don't think engine temp should have any affect on whether the starter clutch rattles or not.
There is a way to centralize where the rattling noise is originating from though, and that will help you in determining what needs replacing or adjusting.
If you have access to a medical stethescope (I think there's even one offered for auto use) you can use that to trace the noise. I've also heard that a garden hose, section of flexible tubing or a long screwdriver (a time-tested auto mechanics trick) can also be used with similar results.

Post edited by: RetroRiceRocketRider, at: 2006/03/25 21:08

N0NB,

Thanks for the el cheapo parts manual trick Almost every vehicle I buy has a dodgy starter. I can get starters for almost anything for less than $100 so I've traded about 50 hours of starter replacing for roughly $5000 over the past 6 years. It's become instinct for me to buy a starter for anything I purchase. I'll start there, and hopefully this allieviates the suspected starter clutch issue.

R4,

I followed links through the Starter Clutch Fix link you posted and read about Mark's accident and subsequent new bike project. You really stepped up with the frame donation, as did the rest of this community with offers of help and support. You guys (and gals) really look out for each other -- that's so cool.

I *drooled* when I saw Mark's "green flame" paintjob! If I had the $$ to spare and wasn't so sure I'm going to drop my new baby at some point (it IS my first street bike after all) I'd take a long vacation and ask him to paint my bike

As far as I know (and this is just principles of engine operation and physics, not ACTUAL engine knowledge) there can't be THAT many things that come loose enough to rattle and undergo enough thermal expansion to "stop rattling."

I have my doubts as to it being starter-related, but when I look at the actual starter clutch picture in the "Starter Clutch Fix" thread I could certainly understand a rattling noise if one of the springs went defunct.

Per my father's advice, I've always had a stethescope in my toolbox. I usually use a screwdriver, though, because it's been my experience that if it's loud enough to notice without a stethescope it's too loud to be listened to with one.

Okay, now I'm getting somewhere. As I said earlier, I'm going to try replacing the entire starter before digging for the starter clutch. OEM part # is 21163-1053. Cycle-parts.com is on crack if they think I'm paying over half the price of the bike for a starter, and I can't find it on eBay.

Questions:

1) Will a different starter work? It seems that 21163-1190 is rather similar (repair kits work for both models)

2) Where can I find the non-OEM part numbers and who builds them?

3) Anyone have a used one they're willing to sell for a reasonable price?

IIRC, it will say Nippondenso on the starter, and there may be a number on the starter itself.
Be a good starting place anyway.