A Harley and a Kaw!

Yeah, they're coming out with a electric bike. Caving in to the Libs. They say it can get 300 miles on a charge but then what?
Steve

Tyler wrote: Reading through yet another Harley thread on KZR... still just shake my head.

Harley is getting itself into a some trouble now, their demographic keeps getting older. They made their big push in the 90's and 2000's with the boomers and now they have their "hog" and (sigh) "chopper" parked in the garage. The new generation doesn't really take to the whole "heritage" or "rebel" bullshit very well. A lot of younger riders I know are into the adventure bikes. Don't know if its just around here or a trend. Harley Davidson can't keep living off the name on the fuel tank, sooner or later they are going to have branch out. Unless all they really want to sell is t-shirts and belt buckles.

Me I'll ride anything on two wheels. I don't care who made it.

This^^^
I started out on scooters and motorized bicycles for my first time on 2 wheels... It was a great way to get into it, while learning basic mechanical knowledge and the adventure and fun you could have on them was pretty awesome.... I think Harley should work on some new engine designs that would change the whole game, since they wanna be this "big and bad" motorcycle company, why don't they hop on up to the stand? Seems like it would make more sense to me... Right now, if they keep the same shit they have, they will inevitably crash and burn, and just become a thing of the past... People are getting tired of the same bikes...

swest wrote: Yeah, they're coming out with a electric bike. Caving in to the Libs. They say it can get 300 miles on a charge but then what?
Steve

Yeah they did show off their electric bike and that was a shock to me. Electric sport bikes are going to become more common I think. And before you goff at electric vehicles ... let me tell you fist hand that you should take this seriously. I worked on a hydrogen fuel cell powered car design, I can attest that you do not know what real acceleration is until you have run a high torque axial flux electric motor and super capacitors... I would wager in a few years a top fuel dragster will not be able to catch an electric powered sled in the 1/4 mile.

Still its a Harley, its over-priced, over hyped, and has mediocre performance at best. The Chinese already beat this thing at a fraction of the cost.

HD is in a somewhat difficult position. They have a very large following / customer base of Harley purists who shun anything that is not an air-cooloed 45 degree V-twin. That really is Harley's bread and butter, and if they abandon those folks they will perish.

HD has tried to evolve their technology. They brought out the V-rod - a relatively fast, dual overhead cam, liquid cooled V-twin developed in cooperation with Porsche. They offer the Street 750 and 500, both of which are liquid cooled V-twins. They also have brought liquid cooled cylinder head models of their big touring bikes. However, none of these impress most of the die-hard Harley purists because they differ too much from the shovelheads, knuckleheads, panheads, etc., etc. of the past. Those folks want a Harley like the good old Harleys they have come to know and love. Most of them don't care at all that their large displacement bikes can be eaten alive by smaller displacement bikes of other brands. That doesn't bother them since they don't plan to race their big, heavy machines. They are happy with what they like and see no reason to change since it meets their requirements. There's nothing wrong with that.

If other, on-purist folks want a newer type, higher-tech Harley they should take a look at the current Harley lineup; there are quite a few models available that they may find interesting. If, on the other hand, they are looking for something to compete with the Kawasaki Ninja H2 they are wasting their time at a HD shop, because that type of riding/racing is not the focus of the Harley brand. Ed

Tyler wrote: ....... And before you goff at electric vehicles ... let me tell you fist hand that you should take this seriously. I worked on a hydrogen fuel cell powered car design, I can attest that you do not know what real acceleration is until you have run a high torque axial flux electric motor and super capacitors... I would wager in a few years a top fuel dragster will not be able to catch an electric powered sled in the 1/4 mile......

A hydrogen fuel cell powered vehicle is one thing, but the plug-in electric car has a whole set of other issues that make it an unreasonable alternative to internal combustion engine vehicles; at least where I live. Plug-in electric cars are actually powered by burning coal, wood, oil, gas, solid waste, etc.; nuclear power plants; and dammed up rivers, because here only 2% of the electrical power comes from wind or solar. Of course, the "green" folks in my area ignore this fact. To make matters worse, the power grid in this area is already saturated to the point that the power company (PEPCO) has measures in place that enables them to control when residents can run their air conditioners so we don't suffer frequent brown-outs. With more than 2 million cars on the road in my immediate area just imagine the impact, if those were plug-in cars, when folks arrived home from work and plugged in their car battery chargers! Black-out! One other major problem with plug-in electric cars is the long duration commutes in my area. It is not uncommon for a commuter to get hung up in traffic for more than 2 hours. This could be a serious problem if most cars were plug-ins since many of their owners would deplete the batteries running electric heaters, headlights, radios, wipers,etc. during the Winter. Add to that the fact that folks around here forget to GO when the traffic signals turn green, so many of them would forget to charge the car batteries at night and would be stranded in rush hour - adding to the already ridiculous traffic problem.

Hydrogen may be a good alternative if the safety and distribution issues can be addressed. I would also like to see more resources put into flywheel hybrids since they could improve fuel economy regardless of the type of fuel used. Ed

Not to mention Ed, a traditional steam turbine is around 30% efficient - most turbines, especially older ones, cannot condense the steam, it's condensed afterwards, hence the huge cooling towers at power plants. Now, one can have extraction turbines that use the spent steam for other processes, but the electrical generation is still the same efficiency. Also, these people that think Ethanol is better - it is and it isn't. I did research as an undergrad, and the energy you get from 1 unit of ethanol took like 4 units of fossil fuels to make - from the fuel in the corn truck to the ethanol plants carbon footprint to the truck that delivers it to the station. Not to mention the extra hot air we all produce as we curse the ethanol as it eats our rubber components in our bikes!

Leaving the valley heading West on I 10, there is usually a head wind going up the grade. Some times it can be 80 MPH. I was going to my daughters bucking a 35-40 MPH head wind on my bike. This pesky Prius with a chick in it was with me all the way, sometimes passing me. I'd shift down two gears to overtake it and here it comes again. I made the mistake of saying Prius's are for Libs and assholes to my daughter's fiance. He has one he drives to work 4 hours one way a day. After this event, I apologized to him. He just smiled and said, It's all about torque. Only problem, his batteries went bad and it cost him $3500 to replace them.
Steve

I'm going to make a new thread on my views of transportation and energy, I didn't mean to hijack this thread.

Ok so on the topic of electric vehicles.. well it s a mixed bag. But one area where I think they will be successful is in sports cars and sport bikes. You have a crotch rocket that can go from 0 to 60 in 2 seconds clear 200 mph and run for a couple hours on a charge... that's good fun. Elon Musk figured this out, though even he is struggling. I've seen a tesla... they are an impressive machine. Ferrari and Lamborghini are jumping on the hybrid and EV scene too... Toys, not daily drivers, are were EV's will work in the near future.

I ride my little KZ with more HD's then I do metric bike's.
We're all buddy's and flick shit back and forth but my HD buddy's
will tell any HD rider not to fuck with my little bike it'll bound their ass.
Then the shit talkin start's till I pull out a hand full
of cash and call them out then it's back pedalin with one reason or another
why we can't race.

I will ride with anyone I don't care what you ride but don't talk shit about
my bike I don't do it but if you do I'll get right up in your face and call you out in front of your buddy's
just to see you make excuse's.

One of the biggest thrills I ever got in my life was when my buddy and I was riding my Honda 50 (topped out at 30 or so .....way back in 64) and a biker gang of 30 or more Harley riders rode by us and gave us a fist up sign along with big smiles......... talkin about goose bumps.

swest wrote: You mean they care? Doubt it, they are in to themselves too much to even think about it. That's OK, easier to see them coming.
Steve

...Sour grapes, Steve. There are assholes out there on Harley's, no doubt! But, don't kid yourself, there are just as many assholes on Hondas, Yamaha's, Suzuki's, Kawasaki's and the rest. It's HUMAN NATURE to be assholes. Some of the finest people I know and have known ride Harley's. Like Malcolm Forbes (RIP), Keith Emerson, Slash and ME! Just to name a few.

Tyler wrote: Reading through yet another Harley thread on KZR... still just shake my head.

Harley is getting itself into a some trouble now, their demographic keeps getting older. They made their big push in the 90's and 2000's with the boomers and now they have their "hog" and (sigh) "chopper" parked in the garage. The new generation doesn't really take to the whole "heritage" or "rebel" bullshit very well. A lot of younger riders I know are into the adventure bikes. Don't know if its just around here or a trend. Harley Davidson can't keep living off the name on the fuel tank, sooner or later they are going to have branch out. Unless all they really want to sell is t-shirts and belt buckles.

Me I'll ride anything on two wheels. I don't care who made it.

...Eeeeh, I have to disagree. Harley's are usually something you grow into. I cut my street teeth on the adventuresome '69 and '70 H1 500's and later a couple of '72 H2 750's. Speed and wheel stands were in by blood! Look at me know, I've owned 2 and still do own 1. But, I never gave up my taste for speed and Kawasaki's undeniably exceptional good looks. That's why I own several.

...And they are also after the younger crowd now with the sweet, in my opinion, good looking 750 V-twins and at an entry level price! I don't think you'll see H-D going away anytime in the near future.