I have a decision to make....what would you guys do?

Nerdy wrote: There's a discussion about this:

kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/609324-tit...-a-barn-find?start=0

Look for the chinonthetank.com link in that thread to see if you can use a Vermont registration.

^THAT^.

We were successful doing the VT registration process that resulted in receiving a KY title for our "The Wounded Z" project, documented elsewhere on KZR. We purchased The Wounded Z sans title, knowing we could overcome that. We can put you in touch with Bob, the owner of a NY motorcycle salvage operation that exports many bikes to the UK each year. We learned of it from Bob, who frequesnt the Mid-Ohio vintage swap meet every year. He must have a title for each bike he exports, and is very familiar with the VT registration & state titling process. He was a valuable resource of info and experience. We would not hesitate to purchase a bike more that 15 yrs. old again that lacked a title, knowing that lack of same can be overcome.

PM us if you wish to contact Bob.

Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE

Yeah...thanks guys. If I DO decide to go through with the purchase, I'll definitely do the Vermont registration thing. Yes, a few hoops to jump through, but seems like a pretty good plan overall. Thanks for all the replies. Meanwhile, I found an 82 LTD 1000 with only 10k miles on it, original owner, WITH a title....so if everything looks good on that, and the guy will sell it to me (saying he only want to sell local, whatever that means....he's 80 miles from me...to me that IS local), I may go that route.

Warner

One thing to note on the VT registration:

If the VIN doesn't show up in the records, you won't be able to have the VIN verified by your local PD officer which is a requirement for the VT registration. I literally just had that problem yesterday with a 1971 XLCH that I recently purchased. The VIN on the title and the registration was entered incorrectly so the PD couldn't verify the VIN on the bike.. nothing came up in their system when they searched the database with the actual number. When they searched the number that was on the previous registration, it came up. Since they didn't "match" (they forgot to add 2 of the digits), it couldn't be verified.

dpivas7 wrote: One thing to note on the VT registration:

If the VIN doesn't show up in the records, you won't be able to have the VIN verified by your local PD officer which is a requirement for the VT registration. I literally just had that problem yesterday with a 1971 XLCH that I recently purchased. The VIN on the title and the registration was entered incorrectly so the PD couldn't verify the VIN on the bike.. nothing came up in their system when they searched the database with the actual number. When they searched the number that was on the previous registration, it came up. Since they didn't "match" (they forgot to add 2 of the digits), it couldn't be verified.

I'm not sure I follow this. I thought the VIN verification was the officer looking at the frame and saying "Yep, that's the VIN that I saw on the frame" I won't HAVE a title or registration when I submit the forms to Vermont. It will be a bill of sale and the other required Vermont forms. There's no title or registration to cross reference it to. Vermont is who provides the registration, and from that you obtain the title from your home state. Am I missing something in my understanding of the process?

Warner

They have to verify that the VIN is not stolen and, from what I understand of my experience, they cannot verify that it is not stolen if the VIN doesn't even appear in the database.

dpivas7 wrote: They have to verify that the VIN is not stolen and, from what I understand of my experience, they cannot verify that it is not stolen if the VIN doesn't even appear in the database.

The bike I'm considering buying is from another state (I live 10 minutes from the state line). No reason to believe it would show up in my state's database, is there? Maybe this is why Vermont doesn't require a title for bikes over 15 years old?

Warner

It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

So if it doesn't show up in there, it basically doesn't EXIST and there's no way to get the Vermont registration?

Warner

Webbie1 wrote:

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

So if it doesn't show up in there, it basically doesn't EXIST and there's no way to get the Vermont registration?

Warner

That was my experience based on bike being previously registered and titled to the incorrect VIN.

dpivas7 wrote:

Webbie1 wrote:

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

So if it doesn't show up in there, it basically doesn't EXIST and there's no way to get the Vermont registration?

Warner

That was my experience based on bike being previously registered and titled to the incorrect VIN.

Well, that would suck for sure. I have a photo of the VIN, and I know my friend's last name and I'm entering them correctly on the Wisconsin DMV site, but it doesn't find it. I even tried common typos that may have been made. No go. I'm not sure if it's because Wisconsin blew everything away that hadn't been registered for a while, or what.

Warner

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

I think that's the one the MSHP uses. It's national database as stated for law enforcement. I used the National Insurance Crime Bureau to check all of the bikes I titled. It will not, however tell if there is a lien on the bike. The state that it is registered in will have the lien on file with the title.

I had to furninsh the VIN of the donor bike for the Honda Rebel that I rescued since I changed the engine. (2 trips to Jefferson City) Once I gave the state trooper the VIN for the parts bike, and it showed up with the engine number in the data base, the trooper pencil whipped that 555 form with no hesitation. (it was refused before)



Here is the National Insurance Crime Bureau 's website. It will show if it was reported stolen / not recovered.

www.nicb.org/vincheck

Keep in mind that the VIN STILL needs to be verified by a state inspection station OR a local law enforcement officer on an official form. Here in MO the DOR 555 form can also be used to verify the VIN number. There may be others, since the 555 costs $35 bucks.. Some may be free printable forms, but that all depends upon what Vermont will accept.

Webbie1 wrote:

dpivas7 wrote: It's a national database called the National Crime Information Center (NCIC). It's run by the FBI I think.

So if it doesn't show up in there, it basically doesn't EXIST and there's no way to get the Vermont registration?
Warner

We checked the VIN on The Wounded Z every which way to Sunday. Called Washington state DMV with the VIN, last-licensed # of the WA plate and the sticker # on the plate from 1986. No records of the bike, PO's name, anything, because WA scrubs records after 20 yrs. (IIRC) of inactivity. We checked every database available to us and, had an old friend who manages a used car dealer branch check also. In most cases the VIN of a '73 Z1 is too short and/or configured wrong to even continue with an online form. The two checks that did complete returned null results.

We had a notarized bill of sale from the seller, showing purchase price, VIN, names & addresses of both buyer & seller, etc. That is a critical piece of paper for this process to work.

After contacting Bob, he sent us some VT DMV forms. A critical one has to be completed by a local LEO, that confirms the VIN. We contacted the local Sheriff's office, which is responsible for dealing with things like VIN records here in KY. We also obtained a KY title application.

A Sheriffs Deputy arrived at our house, inspected the VIN, then completed & signed his sections of both the VT registration application and the KY title application. Cost for VIN inspection - $15.00. Send completed VT forms & money for VT taxes & processing (~$229.00 IIRC) to VT.

Wait.

Couple weeks later a VT registration comes via USPS. A week after that, a VT plate arrives. At that point we could have ridden the bike legally anywhere in the U.S.

We then took the VT registration docs to our closest KY DMV branch. That is where the only glitch happened. The first chick we talked to was new & didn't understand how to do a title app from a VT registration. She got her supervisor, who showed her the two pages in the KY DMV manual describing how to proceed. Completed that process, paid KY taxes on what KY "thinks" a '73 Z1 is worth ($600.00 :laugh: ).

Wait.

Couple weeks later a crispy, fresh KY title appears in our mailbox for The Wounded Z.

Done.

Sounds like you have a chance for a nice bike at the right price. If you don't want it because of the lack of a title, we'd be interested in it at that price if it's close enough to KY.


Good Ridin'
slmjim & Z1BEBE