I have a decision to make....what would you guys do?

I'm facing a bit of a dilema. As I posted on other threads, I found an original, complete 1979 KZ1000 LTD with less than 19k miles that's been kept out of the weather. Decent starting point for a restore. I was planning on buying this from my co-worker that I carpool with for $900. Not sure that's a good price or not, honestly. But that was the deal I agreed to. Well, he couldn't find the title, but said he'd get a duplicate from the state of Wisconsin, where he lives and where the bike was last registered in 1996. Turns out Wisconsin can't FIND records of the bike, despite him giving them a license plate number and VIN. So what they are telling him is that he'd have to get a bonded title, then couldn't really sell it for 5 years when the title cleared and he got a "real" title for it. The other option is he sells it to me with a bill of sale, and I apply for the bonded title in Illinois (where I live) and then it's a 3 year wait from what he found. The final option is to walk from the deal and get my money back. I really HATE this pain in the ass type stuff with titles....looking for some opinions on what you guys would do in a similar situation....same conditions, same price, etc.

Let me know and thanks,

Warner


PS - Here's the bike in question:

There's a discussion about this:

kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/609324-tit...-a-barn-find?start=0

Look for the chinonthetank.com link in that thread to see if you can use a Vermont registration.

Walk away. It's not an ELR and lots of other fish in the sea...

Without a title it is a parts bike. If you want it then I would offer him $200 and then jump through all the hoops to get a title. Not that hard to find KZ's with under 20K miles around here for less than you were offering him.

Oldjeep wrote: Without a title it is a parts bike. If you want it then I would offer him $200 and then jump through all the hoops to get a title. Not that hard to find KZ's with under 20K miles around here for less than you were offering him.

Really? I don't see them for sale. Where are you looking? He has offered to cover the costs of getting the title sorted out, so that would come off of the original offered price. If I saw others like it for sale with titles, this would be a much easier decision. I'm just not seeing them....

Thanks,

Warner

Webbie1 wrote:

Oldjeep wrote: Without a title it is a parts bike. If you want it then I would offer him $200 and then jump through all the hoops to get a title. Not that hard to find KZ's with under 20K miles around here for less than you were offering him.

Really? I don't see them for sale. Where are you looking? He has offered to cover the costs of getting the title sorted out, so that would come off of the original offered price. If I saw others like it for sale with titles, this would be a much easier decision. I'm just not seeing them....

Thanks,

Warner

Craigslist, like every single week. Bought mine for $300 last fall (with 19K miles and a clean title). These are not rare bikes, they sold thousands of them and most of them wound up in the back of peoples garages gathering dust.

Oldjeep wrote:

Webbie1 wrote:

Oldjeep wrote: Without a title it is a parts bike. If you want it then I would offer him $200 and then jump through all the hoops to get a title. Not that hard to find KZ's with under 20K miles around here for less than you were offering him.

Really? I don't see them for sale. Where are you looking? He has offered to cover the costs of getting the title sorted out, so that would come off of the original offered price. If I saw others like it for sale with titles, this would be a much easier decision. I'm just not seeing them....

Thanks,

Warner

Craigslist, like every single week. Bought mine for $300 last fall (with 19K miles and a clean title). These are not rare bikes, they sold thousands of them and most of them wound up in the back of peoples garages gathering dust.

For a KZ1000? I'm just not seeing them on the Chicago area Craigslist. Every KZ1000 I see starts at 2k and goes up from there. It looks like if Illinois actually recognizes the Vermont registration to get a title, that may be the method to use. And if I understand the costs correctly, Vermont would charge me $48 for the registration, plus 6% of the "good" NADA value for the bike (which is currently $1050, so $63). Then, Illinois (IF they honor the Vermont registration to get a title) would charge me $95 for the title, and $41-$54 for the plate, depending if I wanted it personalized or not. So besides all the hoops to jump through, just in financial costs I'd be looking at about $260 it looks like, if all goes well. Out of the $900 price for the bike, I'd paid the guy $550. If I decide to go through all these steps, I'm going to tell the guy that I'll take the bike for what I already paid, I'm just not seeing KZ1000's for sale for anything close to what I'm paying. Maybe it's a regional thing, but just not seeing them.

Warner

I took 5 minutes and ran a search tempest search for KZ1000. Here is what shows up today - they are both junk

detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/mcy/d/saint-c...1000/6913264653.html
kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/d/kansas-c...1000/6891745829.html

The cheap ones come and go frequently, only the over priced ones sit around. So when you see these bikes for 2-4K on CL, they are there because nobody is buying them I personally would not buy a bike that had no title, nor would I buy one where the title had a 3 year restriction on selling it.

Oldjeep wrote: I took 5 minutes and ran a search tempest search for KZ1000. Here is what shows up today - they are both junk

detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/mcy/d/saint-c...1000/6913264653.html
kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/d/kansas-c...1000/6891745829.html

The cheap ones come and go frequently, only the over priced ones sit around. So when you see these bikes for 2-4K on CL, they are there because nobody is buying them I personally would not buy a bike that had no title, nor would I buy one where the title had a 3 year restriction on selling it.[/quote

In general, I agree with that idea. But the Vermont method does not come with that 3 year stipulation. Once you get the title from Illinois, you could sell it the next day. Yeah, it's a bunch of hoops to jump through. This bike is bone stock and complete. I've seen a couple of KZ1000's or KZ1100's on Craigslist (just ran another search on simply "kawasaki kz" and left off the 1000 part), and found one that may be of interest. It's a little concerning that the selling specificially stated "sold as-is". All used motorcycles are, but that seems to indicate a known issue. Waiting to hear back from that seller. But for$800 and some headache, I could have a bike from a known person with a known history. I'm still hoping he FINDS the damn title, though.

Warner

Webbie1 wrote:

Oldjeep wrote: I took 5 minutes and ran a search tempest search for KZ1000. Here is what shows up today - they are both junk

detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/mcy/d/saint-c...1000/6913264653.html
kansascity.craigslist.org/mcy/d/kansas-c...1000/6891745829.html

The cheap ones come and go frequently, only the over priced ones sit around. So when you see these bikes for 2-4K on CL, they are there because nobody is buying them I personally would not buy a bike that had no title, nor would I buy one where the title had a 3 year restriction on selling it.[/quote

In general, I agree with that idea. But the Vermont method does not come with that 3 year stipulation. Once you get the title from Illinois, you could sell it the next day. Yeah, it's a bunch of hoops to jump through. This bike is bone stock and complete. I've seen a couple of KZ1000's or KZ1100's on Craigslist (just ran another search on simply "kawasaki kz" and left off the 1000 part), and found one that may be of interest. It's a little concerning that the selling specificially stated "sold as-is". All used motorcycles are, but that seems to indicate a known issue. Waiting to hear back from that seller. But for$800 and some headache, I could have a bike from a known person with a known history. I'm still hoping he FINDS the damn title, though.

Warner

Good luck with whatever you decide - and FWIW, I wouldn't be concerned about ads that say as-is. That is merely to ward off idiots who think that a bike from the 70's isn't going to need a ton of catch up maintenance. Luckily maint items are cheap.

The Vermont process was a painless process. Here is a a re-post (with some editing) of mine, the registration and tax costs may have gone slightly up since I did it:

"I went the VT route and the bill of sale did not need be notarized. In my case, I bought the bike in Florida, so when I met the seller I took with me a Florida bill of sale which I downloaded form the FL DMV website and filled out in advance. I also downloaded an odometer/VIN verification form form the FL DMV website. After picking up the bike, I had a local county Sheriff (purchased it out of my county) meet with me to verify the VIN and odometer and fill out / sign the form I had brought with me. One thing to keep in mind, VT will not issue a title for a bike older than 15 years old. They only issue a registration and 1 year plate. I don't even think they titled bikes in VT back then. So as long as the bike is older than 15 years old, it should be no problem. Here how it works. I used this form from the Florida DMV:
DMV-DB119 (you should have something similar in your state)
You don't have to be a resident of VT and don't have to be in the state to apply. VT will accept your bill of sale and the the odometer/ VIN verification by a certified agency in your state (in FL, a state or county law enforcement officer is authorized to do the check). You will be charged 6% of the sale price. But you will at a minimum, be assessed on a $500.00 sale price; even if you paid less for the bike. I paid $250.00 for my bike but was still assessed at 6% of $500.00 ($30.00). The tax is based on the minimum $500 sale price or what is on the Bill of Sale. Which ever is higher. It is not based on the NADA value (at least at the time of my application). It will cost you the additional $44.00 for the registration and plates which is good for one year. You can use the plates the whole year. Or, you can use the registration immediately get a title in your state (anytime before the registration expires). In my case I went and paid FL to get a FL title using the VT registration as proof of ownership. Good luck"

Hope this helps.

I have done the Missouri abandoned vehicle process 3 times. It IS a bunch of certified letter notifications and such to send out to the registered owner, and a BIG PITA tanking the bike to MSHP troop F for inspection, but it does work. 3 out of 4 bikes have a screwed up title, in my experience.
The last Harley I had was the worst title ever. It had been sold 8 times from what I could count on a mangled Arizona title. Each time it was sold, the title was made into a bigger mess. I went through the abandoned vehicle process, then sold it with a clean valid title. I'm sure it's back to the usual state of f'd up title, since it's been about 3 years since I sold it. :S
It seems most motorcycle buyers feel that titling it is too much of a inconvenience to actually do. They let the title sit until there is a big penalty on it, then it never gets done once the battery goes dead and the carbs gum up. Also in this day and age, you need to be careful not to buy something with a title loan or is stolen. There are sites that you can run the VIN to check if it's stolen. I assure you, the MSHP checks that first.
My old Kaw was an abandoned vehicle from Illinois.

This was my 81 CSR I sold years ago. Notice the Kansas plate is bent over.. THIS sly devil bent it over so that the STL police couldn't tell it had expired 5 years ago. This bike also had a lien release from a Kansas bank that had to have it's own certified letters sent then returned notifying them to my intent to title the bike. (the buyer filled in the buyer info, then never titled it) , The titling process here is not cheap either, when you figure in all of the certified letters, the DOR 555 inspection form ($35.00), the trip 125 miles one way to troop F , then the titling fee's after you make it to the DOR window... THEN< they wanted to charge me a title penalty because I had bought it more than 30 days prior. (it must be in your possession 30 days to be considered a "abandoned vehicle"). Some days I just wish I had stayed in bed. lol


I paid $300.00 for this bike as-is, where is.. THEN went into all of the stuff that turns it into a screamer with a valid title and license plate. It sold for $1800.00 cash and was ridden home. Note the air box was replaced. This bike flat a-- screamed.. much like the one I ride now. :woohoo:


It had under 10K miles.


If the Vermont process is that easy, I would go that route. No decoder ring required the way it sounds. Check out this thread: kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/609324-tit...-a-barn-find?start=0