The bevel gear case on your bike is shaped differently than a chain drive countershaft sprocket cover. First thing would be a chain drive crankshaft. The engine cases would have to be swapped for a chain drive cover I think. Now that you have a basically a new bottom end, you will have to figure out how to put a chain drive swingarm on your bike. Note the shafty has TWO smaller pivot points while the chain has one big pivot for the swingarm. The fittings on the frame are likely wrong because I believe the small shaft pivots are driven in place and ride on needle bearings so you would have to do some fabrication to get a chain swingarm mounted. Next, you will have to get a chain drive rear wheel. You will have to also buy a chain driver outer countershaft cover... By the time you finish, I suspect you could be using your old carburetors and front suspension. Seems to me if you want a chain drive bike, it would be cheaper and easier to buy a chain drive bike. I personally like shaft drive bikes... not as much noise, little maintenance and much cleaner. You pay for this by adding a couple of pounds and losing a little rear wheel horsepower. Since the bikes we are talking about are not speed wagons to begin with, a couple less horsepower than a chain drive model doesn't seem to be much of a price to pay.

No stabs at this one yet I see...

Well, let's see....82 GP11....vibration problem...ticking noises...

First think I think of with a J motor vibrating is the crank...even though Kaw tried to claim the 82's didn't twist, we sent enough of them to Falicon and hey all needed indexing....funny thing that..

Check torque on all the motor mounts, footpegs and swing arm pivot...hell..check every nut and bolt on the bike...can't hurt..

Check your carb snych.

Check your cam chain tensioner.. those side load tensioners were prone to backing off....I'd dump that and get a manual lock down tensioner from APE.

Check valve clearances as follows:

One valve at a time, point the lobe directly away from the bucket and check clearance right there on the bottom of the base circle...set the intakes to .004" and the exhausts to .006".

Recheck carb snych after valve adjustment.

Post edited by: larrycavan, at: 2006/12/22 19:12

I don't know that there are any "magic numbers" -- like most things in chassis design and suspension setup, everything is a series of compromises.

From a physics standpoint, the chain tries to pull the wheel "forward" when accelerating. If the if the wheel axle is below the line drawn through the countershaft & swingarm pivot, the suspension compresses as the chain tries to pull the wheel forward. If it is below, it extends the suspension.

In a perfect world, the axle will not be below the line with no weight on either wheel. In the real world, it may be necessary (raising the rear to increase ground clearance, decrease the fork rake, etc.) At that point, it's a matter of choosing the lesser of evils.

In a roadrace situation, your rear suspension is always compressed when you are exiting a turn, so if the axle was slightly below the line in an unladen situation, it shouldn't be an issue. Where it could come into play is if the rear wheel breaks traction, the suspension tops out, the axle pivot moves past the centerline. Now the chain is working to stiffen the suspension, which would make saving that slide even more difficult. Not really a concern on the street, but something to keep in mind.

The other thing to keep an eye on is how much the chain is going to rub on the swingarm in the pivot area when you increase the swingarm angle.

Bad Kaw wrote:

Sheik: you're insane. Kool. My kinda buddy!

Thought I'd throw a few thoughts at you. "Rejection" is my middle name, so don't worry if you wanna tell me to take a hike. Anyway, that CSR has a 18 or 19 on the front right? You said you were going to re-lace, I'd consider lacing those hubs to 17" rims. Last year at the dealer show there were some hot options popping up with laced wheels; and since you are familiar with what a bike with 17s handles like, it's a good move. It will lower the bike, but not as much as you think; I've done it on several of my old school rides and it makes a stunning handling difference...and you commented on what you want to do with this thing...anyway, just a thought. Also, with all that wild-ass work, you might consider a different front end...the old school forks love to flex. Lastly, you may already know, brace the head-stock area and the rear-frame area above the rear swing-arm pivot. Criss-crossing tube-stock in an "X" shape from the right side frame to the left side frame is most common.

Anyway, I - like everybody else here - am really interested in watching your project. Kool!

thanks man, i am going to look for a 17" hoop for the front, as yet I need to count spokes on the front hub and start searching the web. might not have to drop the triple as much this way also.

as far as forks i'm going to do oil, preload spacers, and springs. not really considering swapping. anyone suggest a bolt on swap donor model and year that's better and worth doing..?



head stock area has some pretty decent looking stock gussets that I do not see when looking at 70's KZ frame pics -- do i still want to add more material? remove factory gussets and do it with tubing? that rear frame X brace sounds like a plan though. i have extra DOM frame tubing (beyond my seat rails) and my new Lincoln MIG (under the tree i hope)...

the bike starts as a 1200$, found it on sunday morning in the paper, holy shit, that's a turbo bike, and i'll be there with the cash in a few. didn't even dicker.

the turbo/turbo engine is slated for a drag bike. so, out that comes, and in goes a 73 z1 bottom ended, 1015 block and head n/a engine goes in. ride that a while, while putting together a plan.

here's where i am coming from:



and here:



the point where i decided that the turbo engine would be more fun pushing my ass as fast as i dare go on a drag chassis, was the point where this plan sort of hatched. put that together with a strong desire to go to california to see the motogp, and it's a recipe for a little adventure.

build the 77 to be what i want it to be: mild n/a engine, 1197, cams, ported head, and small carbs. lots of tq.

a decent, cool-looking suspension setup. modern brakes, usd forks, mono-shock rear end. and, keep it as green as possible. i liked the looks of the current crop of 636r and rr setups, so that was easy. radial brakes, "petal" style rotors, massively braced swingarm, 17x3.5" front wheel, and 17x5.5" rear. modern rubber, front and rear.

i have the front end ready to go. i took a kz stem out of the lower triple. cleaned it up in the lathe, and made a bushing to adapt the stem to the 636 lower. a little TIG work, and swap the bearings to the new triple.







the pics will show the front suspension mounted on my drag frame, to verify my work on the stem.

this setup will use the 636 clip-ons for now, until i locate a z1000 top clamp, which will facilitate the use of a normal 7/8ths bar.

the frame needs to be tweeked a little so that this fits. basically, i need to remove the old kz steering lock, and weld a new on on that is appropriate for the new forks. the old one hits the lower triple, hard... it could be clearanced, but the steering stops on the new lower tree aren't even close to it.

the rear required the swingarm be narrowed about 1/8th of an inch just behind the pivot. once that was done, it slides cleanly into the frame. i bored(had bored, my lathe isn't big enough) the 636 swingarm bolt to the size of the kz bolt. works out nice and slick.

the 636 has just a tad under 6" of rear travel, so i need to do some work out back to get things right. i'l be fabbing up the upper shock mount, then i will be removing the center stand tabs from the lower cross member, to facilitate the new pick up for the shock linkage. i also will need to cut the factory passenger peg mounts off to fit the wide arm.

probably going to do a set of rear sets from another bike. this i haven't decided yet. lots more stuff to do, and it needs to be done before july. 8^)

i'll add more pics and data as the process moves along.

some more of those pics:









(the last two are of my swingarm on wireman's frame)

hope i haven't bored everyone to tears. 8^)

--r

Post edited by: solomrus, at: 2006/12/19 00:30

Post edited by: steell, at: 2006/12/20 10:50

Been reading daily/lurking since October, finally time to post up project is underway! Looks like a fun haunt, Wiredgeorge, wireman, arobsum, guitargeek, gringo, sandy, all good members.

Name is Jason Fagan in SE Ohio, work IT for a heavy demo/construction equipment company. Huge gigantic road racing and bike and car nut. Sit and listen to engine recordings some nights and drink warm boddingtons pub ale.

Riding street for 7 years, have about 50,000 mi experience. Bikes: 2002 Suzuki SV650, 2002 Triumph Speed Four, 2003 Kawasaki KDX200 woods bike. Pace style sportrider, do onboard DVD bike videos, been to Deals Gap a bunch, never done a trackday, full Vanson leathers, Arai lids. Love 300mi Sundays in the 5000' mountains of WV-VA.

Active poster on SVRider.com and TriumphRAT.net forums.

I've just added my third street bike to the garage, a 1981 Kawasaki KZ1000 CSR. It is destined to become a cafe racer.. Don't want it to look like someone made it in their garage even though that is exactly what is going to happen.

Found KZ1000 on eBay, 160 mi north of Lancaster Ohio in Cleveland. 'Bought it now' sight unseen for $995 with 17,000 miles however title says "Warning: Mileage discrepancy."

Stock looking 1981 CSR with MAC 4-into-1 and pods. Bike started, idled normally, a little smoke on warmup no biggie it was 20F and night. He offered me to take a spin and I did briefly. Everything works, all switchgear, and lights. Brakes a little wooden, clutch and gearbox felt very good, tranny was very positive made good noises. Rides nice really, loaded it up and took her home.



I rode it on two nice loops once home, about 100 miles total. It sounded excellent and revs willingly, nice bark to it. It pulls ok from 3k to 6,500 rpm where it would miss and no longer accelerate. Had gearing for 80 mph at that RPM limit. Power felt a little weaker than I expected overall but did have some torquey pull at 3500rpm in a tall gear. I ran some carb cleaner through it and, another 30+ mile continuous ride but no change.

No visible leaks, bike seems great other than a bit of a tired motor. Brakes got better with some hard use but all calipers and master cylinder will be rebuilt. Compression test with a hot engine, I had all plugs in except the one I was testing and I had the throttles closed as I didn't know any better = 105-89-84-109(psi). Added a little oil to cylinder #3 and it went to 125 psi. Can't retest bike motor is out. Still it’s probably a tired motor that probably ran hot, inside cylinders being so much lower compression? Also won't start in cold weather 30F with out a shot of ether.

Wanna hear it? 1MB

Wanna see me horse around on it? 30MB

I don't feel bad cutting one up a bit as it's an unloved CSR model anyway, but the CSR is perfect choice for a cafe built to be sport ridden hard and often with it's triple disc / but cafe looking wire wheel setup. Looks the part and it should stop once rebuilt with the trip discs. I want to crank lots of curvy road miles on this baby when it's done.

Looking to do some frame mods, MIG weld in some higher seat rails and chop the tail at the rear axle, weld on plate for rearsets. Grind off stock tabs and powdercoat the frame, swingarm, triples, etc.. Either Glass from the Past or Air-Tech fiberglass café tank and tail section. Rebuild motor, maybe 1075cc, valve job, Dyna ign, Megaphone exhaust, carb clean up. Rebuild all brakes, forks, add some cool piggyback shocks, eliminate sprocket cover with clutch cable holder from Precision Metal fab, new gauges, clipons, SV650 rearsets. Budgeting $4000 we’ll see.

I will have lots of questions through this process. Figured I might as well give a complete intro since I'm gonna jump in with both feet. Hoping for completion by July 2007 so I can ride it to the AMA Vintage Motorcycle Days at Mid Ohio.

Am about to bust loose some initial questions in the appropriate forums. If you read all this thanks!

Later all!

Post edited by: sheik*yerbouti, at: 2006/12/17 20:43

Post edited by: sheik*yerbouti, at: 2006/12/17 20:44

'96 GSXR750 USD forks
ZX9 front wheel w/310mm rotors, 6 piston calipers
ZX6 rear wheel
Pirelli Dragons 120 and 170
Moto X bars
Stock alloy swingarm and shock, trying to decide whether to go with a GSXR shock or...?

Post edited by: Fossil, at: 2006/12/16 02:18

Hatman wrote:

wireman wrote:

if you are going roadracing id reccomend going no longer than the stock arm;)

Actually, a longer arm is in the cards.

Other than the normal decrease weight/increase chassis rigidity/improve suspension/etc., my goals with this project are:

1) Increase cornering clearance by lifting the bike up (The old Muzzy-built Kawasaki Superbikes of this era were about 1.5 inches higher at the lower frame rails)

2) Quicken steering by decreasing both rake and trail.

3) Move weight bias forward

4) Decrease the wheelbase if at all possible

#1 can be accomplished a variety of ways. 17" wheels compound the issue. Jacking up the back with longer shocks is easy, but then you run into issues with an improper swingarm angle -- a swingarm with the axle below a line drawn from the countershaft through the swingarm pivot will rise and stiffen during acceleration, which causes problems (ie: loss of traction, potential highsides) at corner exits. Jacking up the rear end past this line decreases the wheelbase, but moves the weight bias even more to the rear. Increasing the front clearance can be done by decreasing the rake and/or by raising the front with longer fork.

#2 (at least the decreasing rake part) can be accomplished by dropping the front or raising the rear. However, simply dropping the front just adds to ground clearance issues, and simply raising the rear causes the issues described in the previous paragraph. The stock '82 GPz 750 has a rake of 27 degrees and a trail of 107mm. The 2007 GSXR 1000 (pretty much the open-class racebike of choice) has a rake of 23.8 degrees and a trail of 98mm. I'd be shooting for 25 degrees and about 100mm. Changing the trail can be done with different offset triple clamps or adjustable triple clamps.

#3 can be accomplished by moving the engine forward within the wheelbase. This can be done by moving the front wheel back (by decreaseing rake)or by increasing the swingarm length.

#4 can be accomplished by decreasing the front rake, shortening the swingarm (with the problems noted above), or shortening the stock frame (difficult at best)or using a custom frame.

So, my planned course of action is to decrease the front rake through either modifying the steering head angle, using custom triple clamps, or both. The resulting loss in wheelbase will then be made up with a longer swingarm. The longer swingarm will also raise the rear of the bike without moving the wheel axle beyond the countershaft/swingarm pivot line.

Those changes will accomplish goals #1-#3, but not #4. The above plan of action will result in the wheelbase staying about the same. That is a good tradeoff to accomplish three first three goals. The only way to accomplish all four would be to use a custom frame, which isn't legal in AHRMA Vintage Superbike.

I'll keep folks posted with details and pics as the project unfolds.

ok that makes sense if you are taking something out of the front id reccomend a good stabilizer with it though;)

wireman wrote:

steell wrote:

It's interesting that the GPz750 Turbo already has most of the bracing shown in the Klosman diagram, along with a larger backbone (upper frame tube). And it's noticeably heavier than the non turbo GPz750.

the added strengh and ability to actually put the power to the ground more than makes up for the few extra pounds .if you have to fight the chassis to get it to work for you you will never reach the full potential of what the bike and motor can do.:evil: all the fancy upside down forks and single shock swingarms in world will do you any good if youre frame cannot handle the loads put upon it

Indeed, this is one of the problems I ran into with my Yamaha Seca Turbo: They used a stock Maxim 650 frame which may as well have been made out of slinkies. A buddy of mine had one just like mine and he learned the hard way to never try and follow a GSX-R 750 through a twisty canyon road!

mark1122 wrote:

Guitargeek,how did you calculate those prices?The 1st arm says 140 yen,isnt a yen very close to $1?

They used a decimal where they should have used a comma.
I use Yahoo's currency converter:
quote.yahoo.com/m5?a=140000&s=JPY&t=USD&c=0

I have no idea about shipping costs, probably steep tough. Look at their other bits, some pretty sexy stuff!

www.win-pmc.com/english/menu.htm

The adjustable billet sidestand is especially nice, as is the stainless steel battery box.

Oh, and I don't guess anybody noticed since nobody commented on it, but all three of their swingarms are also oil tanks, see the fittings?