TOPIC:

Isn't deck height normally measured with the cylinder torqued down??        Or was this just a "photo op"?

slayer61 wrote:

Isn't deck height normally measured with the cylinder torqued down??    

   Or was this just a "photo op"?

Yes! Measurements were take with the block nipped down.
That pic is from my build thread over on the Z1 forum and was taken after i'd took my head substitute spacers off.

 

hey zed, im using a main bearing support cap plate. does that require new fasteners, or do i mill the cap down so that the old bolts will fit? thanks! 

I used original bolts . Then at next time I dug into the motor I put the lower end stud kit in  from APE
Dave

turbodarnell wrote:

hey zed, im using a main bearing support cap plate. does that require new fasteners, or do i mill the cap down so that the old bolts will fit? thanks! 

The cap has to be milled to fit the cap.
Once the hump has been machined off you then have to further mill off the thickness of the support plate to make it the same height as it was originally where the bolts sat .
You can then either use the original bolts or fit a HD stud kit.
Pic shows a couple of caps i'm in the process of doing for my current builds.
The one on the right has the hump removed but is still the original height where the bolts sat.
And the one on the left has had the thickness of the support cap milled off so that the whole assembly is the same height as original when fitted. . 

turbodarnell wrote:

hey zed, im using a main bearing support cap plate. does that require new fasteners, or do i mill the cap down so that the old bolts will fit? thanks! 


 

APE plate can’t be used unles the main cap is milled. Then you can use original bolts, but defeats the purpose. Main studs are recommended 

Mikaw wrote:

turbodarnell wrote:

hey zed, im using a main bearing support cap plate. does that require new fasteners, or do i mill the cap down so that the old bolts will fit? thanks! 



 

APE plate can’t be used unles the main cap is milled. Then you can use original bolts, but defeats the purpose. Main studs are recommended 
 

Perfect timing with this post...

I'm currently fitting APE main studs, and had two people suggest this main cap mod.  Wouldn't mind a couple more, since I'm installing a welded crank that no-way I can imagine would come out in pieces.  Seems like over kill to do the cap mod for my street-use only application, but I don't know...

APE instructions below mention using Loctite on the main case studs.  Is Loctite Red 271 appropriate?

www.aperaceparts.com/tech/mbskaw.html

daveo wrote:

Mikaw wrote:

turbodarnell wrote:

hey zed, im using a main bearing support cap plate. does that require new fasteners, or do i mill the cap down so that the old bolts will fit? thanks! 




 

APE plate can’t be used unles the main cap is milled. Then you can use original bolts, but defeats the purpose. Main studs are recommended 

 

Perfect timing with this post...

I'm currently fitting APE main studs, and had two people suggest this main cap mod.  Wouldn't mind a couple more, since I'm installing a welded crank that no-way I can imagine would come out in pieces.  Seems like over kill to do the cap mod for my street-use only application, but I don't know...

APE instructions below mention using Loctite on the main case studs.  Is Loctite Red 271 appropriate?

www.aperaceparts.com/tech/mbskaw.html

Personally I prefer "blue" loctite on anything I may want to take out again at a later date (especially a stud where there is no head to get a spanner on) as "red" is pretty permanent (heat can help if you need to remove)

daveo wrote:

APE instructions below mention using Loctite on the main case studs.  Is Loctite Red 271 appropriate?

www.aperaceparts.com/tech/mbskaw.html

When fitting the HD studs they don't necessarily sit at the correct height when fully screwed into the cases and bottomed out so may end up too short for sufficient depth of thread contact in the nuts.
This especially applies to the cylinder studs ( which always usually need the heights setting ) but can also affect the case studs too.
You should dry fit the studs to check the length and if any sit too low they should be wound out to the correct height and marked at the base then set at that height with a permanent thread lock such as 271 to stop them winding in or out during torquing or removal of the nuts.
It's normal practice to set them in with high strength thread lock as there's no reason to remove them under normal circumstances for engine maintenance and rebuilds and the thread lock in the case needs to be stronger than that on the nuts so that the studs don't wind out instead of the nuts undoing..
The case nuts themselves only require normal blue thread lock but non on the head nuts..




 

zed1015 wrote:

daveo wrote:

APE instructions below mention using Loctite on the main case studs.  Is Loctite Red 271 appropriate?

www.aperaceparts.com/tech/mbskaw.html

When fitting the HD studs they don't necessarily sit at the correct height when fully screwed into the cases and bottomed out so may end up too short for sufficient depth of thread contact in the nuts.
This especially applies to the cylinder studs ( which always usually need the heights setting ) but can also affect the case studs too.
You should dry fit the studs to check the length and if any sit too low they should be wound out to the correct height and marked at the base then set at that height with a permanent thread lock such as 271 to stop them winding in or out during torquing or removal of the nuts.
It's normal practice to set them in with high strength thread lock as there's no reason to remove them under normal circumstances for engine maintenance and rebuilds and the thread lock in the case needs to be stronger than that on the nuts so that the studs don't wind out instead of the nuts undoing..
The case nuts themselves only require normal blue thread lock but non on the head nuts..



 

Thanks Zed!  That is the approach I had contemplated, with blue 242 on the nuts. 

Assuming the proper way to go about this is to lightly but thoroughly coat the insertion thread length of each stud, with immediate installation to set position in the case, and allow 24 hours to cure before applying torque. 


The two outer right studs needed to set 3/16" deeper into the case than the factory threads would allow.
The removal of a few threads at the top, and increase of thread depth at the bottom were necessary to achieve this, and no increase of hole depth was required.




Done with that!

Ended up squirting a few drops of Loctite directly on the case threads so the studs would spread it around while threading in, and press the excess upwards and out when they bottom out.



Worked great!

hey zed somebody mentioned earlier about o ring the cylinders, im not sure exactly what that means. could you explain? thanks!

turbodarnell wrote:

hey zed somebody mentioned earlier about o ring the cylinders, im not sure exactly what that means. could you explain? thanks!

To help contain the increased cylinder pressure when fitting a turbo or supercharger and using a copper head gasket it is usual to machine a shallow groove in the top of the liner around the bore or in the head around the combustion chamber and insert a steel ring ( usually wire ) which protrudes above the surface .
This bites into the copper gasket when torqued down and creates a more secure, tighter seal against blow by and gasket failure.
For street use and where boost doesn't exceed around 25 psi modern MLS gaskets are now used and no O' ring is needed at all which negates the need to re machine a groove every time you need to change a liner or cylinders.