TOPIC:

Looking for tips and/or tricks to protect my fresh paint job. Hand or machine wax/buff/polish, protection from gas or brake fluid spills or other harmful agents, preferred waxes/polish or any other tips gained from experience appreciated. On a related note, I came across references to DOT 5 brake fluid in an old post, claiming it won't harm the paint. There seems to be a lot of info for and against. Not suitable for ABS systems, but how about a KZ? Thanks all.

Dave

Some good thoughts in your post. For sure waxing by hand is a good idea. I like Mothers California Gold with cleaner. When I used to take long trips with a tank bag I would wax every day. Dot5 works great in a KZ. This may be arguable, some say since it doesn't absorb water like dot3 it may separate the water/ brake fluid and cause corrosion where the water builds up so the idea is to regularly change the dot5. My experience is dot5 works fine and takes no additional maintenence. Other ideas include to try to park in the shade (duh). May sound kinda like a given, but I see motorcyles all the time parked in bright 100 degree sun when they could be moved 20 ft to nice shade.
Do as you may, no repaint will ever be near as durable as the factory paint. I know I've caused a lot of problems here in the past by saying this and I'm sorry, but it ain't goin to happen. You can however make it last quite a few years hopefully by waxing and keeping it out of the sun as possible. Good luck to you.

There are quote a few liquid "polishes" That claim fuel spill protection. After you use one of these, nothing prevents you from using the wax like Ron uses for the deep shine, and one more layer of protection. My son repainted his honda this spring, and followed it with one of the liquid polishes...got it at a cycle swap meet. Then we waxed over that. It does a good job protecting the paint. He spilled gas on his tank and went straight to work...as he would have been late otherwise. 10 hours later he came home all bummed out about the damage. It turned out to be no deeper than the wax job over the liquid polish, and it hand buffed right out with little effort. I agree with Ron on the durability of the factory finish...real tough. Once you've repainted, the products available are pretty good. We're using one called Cycle sheen, but I think they're all pretty similar nowdays.

RonKZ650 wrote:

Do as you may, no repaint will ever be near as durable as the factory paint. I know I've caused a lot of problems here in the past by saying this and I'm sorry, but it ain't goin to happen. You can however make it last quite a few years hopefully by waxing and keeping it out of the sun as possible. Good luck to you.

On the contrary, factory paint isn't very UV resistant, and I'd say the factory does a pretty bad job of paint in general. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, and I respect it, as I am sure that it wasn't formed without merit, that sometime in your life you came to the conclusion that no matter what, the factory paint is best. Some factors to consider...

UV protection
surface preparation
anti-corrosive capabilities
porousness
self-etching DTM capabilities
catylization


With proper technique and materials, there is no doubt that a repaint can last 10 times longer than the factory paint job. Not to mention cheaper too. Ever buy kawasaki paint? it's $60 a pint per stage, and you have to use your own clearcoat, reducers, hardeners, and primers. the average bike is 3 stage, gray/gray metallic base, tinted clear, clear. That's $120 for the paint, plus the additional related primers, hardeners, reducers and clear coat. I can put a premium PPG paint system on for around $110 in material costs, total. That's nearly 50% cheaper.

ive used it in everything trom bikes to trucks for 20 plus years never had a problem in any of my zs,and ive had a lot of em.i own a utility contracting company and i even use it in my c-60 dumptrucks 15,000 lb trucks pulling 20,000ld backhoes plus 6,000 lb trailers,i never have problems with brakefade even in big trucks.doesnt absorb moisture doesnt hurt paint,and doesnt need to changed every coulpe years like regular fluid

Post edited by: wireguy, at: 2005/11/22 01:19

I had mine repainted with acrylic urethane. The painter said he would void the warranty if I used anything other than 3M Imperial Hand Glaze. He gave me a bottle, and I've used it religiously.
Mine is in a plastic quart bottle. Apply it with a lint-free cloth. A little goes a long way. Then just buff it off with a clean cloth.
Mmmmmm.... SHINY!

The only reason I have my "uninformed" opinion is I've seen, say, 20 gazilion repainted cars and motorcycles and 19 gazillion of them looked horrible from day one, and 0.99 gazillion of the rest looked like crap in a couple years or less. That leaves like .01 gazillion that look good (LTD rider type job)after any length of time. Here's a scenario I see all the time, 10 yr old car driving down the road, part of the paint looks good, then all of a sudden another part adjacent to it is noticably more faded/pealing/you name it. Which panel do you think has the "new" repaint from accident repair? Sure ain't the shiney part, it's the dull faded part. Do you guys know that according to The Kelley Blue Book used car and motorcycle value guides that to be considered "excellent" condition a vehical has to still have 100% original paint? Once repainted, however great the job, the vehical can never be classified as excellent condition, good at best.I apologize for getting into this after I said I'd never mention anything about repaints. I'm sure there are great painters out there and you sound very good at your job, but I'd have to side on the original paint going by the odds I've seen.
John68 wrote:

RonKZ650 wrote:

Do as you may, no repaint will ever be near as durable as the factory paint. I know I've caused a lot of problems here in the past by saying this and I'm sorry, but it ain't goin to happen. You can however make it last quite a few years hopefully by waxing and keeping it out of the sun as possible. Good luck to you.

On the contrary, factory paint isn't very UV resistant, and I'd say the factory does a pretty bad job of paint in general. You are entitled to your opinion, of course, and I respect it, as I am sure that it wasn't formed without merit, that sometime in your life you came to the conclusion that no matter what, the factory paint is best. Some factors to consider...

UV protection
surface preparation
anti-corrosive capabilities
porousness
self-etching DTM capabilities
catylization


With proper technique and materials, there is no doubt that a repaint can last 10 times longer than the factory paint job. Not to mention cheaper too. Ever buy kawasaki paint? it's $60 a pint per stage, and you have to use your own clearcoat, reducers, hardeners, and primers. the average bike is 3 stage, gray/gray metallic base, tinted clear, clear. That's $120 for the paint, plus the additional related primers, hardeners, reducers and clear coat. I can put a premium PPG paint system on for around $110 in material costs, total. That's nearly 50% cheaper.

Bah! Look at any Ford from late '80s - early '90s. UV damage causes the clear coat to flake off, and the paint eats it. Sure, if you keep it in a garage (out of UV light) it'll last longer, but you've got to drive it sometime. There's plenty of factory paint out there that doesn't (and didn't!) last.

I think that requiring original paint is KBB's way of making sure that shoddy repairs aren't passed off as "excellent", and the only way to guarantee that is to disallow all repaints.

Properly applied, modern paints can be very, very good in terms of durability and appearance. The problem is that if you buy all of your paint at Walmart or Pep Boys, you aren't getting any of the benefits of modern paint.

I agree that most finishes look like crap, but if you don't think that this extends to factory paint jobs you haven't stared at finished on nearly as many new cars as I have. Reducing orange peel requires attention and skill, and factory paint processes don't hit this mark. Durability requires either constant attention and waxing or using high-quality paint and skillfully controlled application in the first place.

I've seen painters try to *add* orange peel using various techniques in order to match factory finishes. That's not exactly a positive thing!

When you're using the same paint the factory does and applying it correctly, there's no reason that durability won't match the factory finish. Those who don't get such good results either aren't using good paint or aren't applying it correctly.

I agree with you on most of this as I had a 1989 Ford truck I bought new and at about 8 yrs it was no longer perfect, but there were 2 places the dealer saw fit to repaint before I got the truck from apparent shipping damage. I knew I was in "big" trouble when I find silver overspray on the windshield trim. Well no use even trying to make the repainted panels stay looking good because I knew it couldn't possibly happen. With frequent waxing and keeping the truck covered all Summer they did look good for about 3 yrs though which was far beyond my expectations. I have a 1997 Ford truck that has sat in the sun for 9 yrs now and paint is still 100% perfect on it. I wonder what the "world record" is for the longest lasting repaint, sitting in the sun without going to crap. Not 9 yr's I don't believe, so I've already broken the best repaint ever applied record on my factory job.
GargantuChet wrote:

Bah! Look at any Ford from late '80s - early '90s. UV damage causes the clear coat to flake off, and the paint eats it. Sure, if you keep it in a garage (out of UV light) it'll last longer, but you've got to drive it sometime. There's plenty of factory paint out there that doesn't (and didn't!) last.

I think that requiring original paint is KBB's way of making sure that shoddy repairs aren't passed off as "excellent", and the only way to guarantee that is to disallow all repaints.

Properly applied, modern paints can be very, very good in terms of durability and appearance. The problem is that if you buy all of your paint at Walmart or Pep Boys, you aren't getting any of the benefits of modern paint.

I agree that most finishes look like crap, but if you don't think that this extends to factory paint jobs you haven't stared at finished on nearly as many new cars as I have. Reducing orange peel requires attention and skill, and factory paint processes don't hit this mark. Durability requires either constant attention and waxing or using high-quality paint and skillfully controlled application in the first place.

I've seen painters try to *add* orange peel using various techniques in order to match factory finishes. That's not exactly a positive thing!

When you're using the same paint the factory does and applying it correctly, there's no reason that durability won't match the factory finish. Those who don't get such good results either aren't using good paint or aren't applying it correctly.

Here we go again:sick:

Uh-oh... I heard something about a paint finish war before, so maybe I should just step out before fanning old flames.

The "best" way to test it semi-definitively would be to take several different finishes, let them cure, and subject them all to equal punishment to see how they all fare.

I do stand by the idea that factory paint often has *lots* of orange peel, though. That one can be proven pretty easily.

GargantuChet wrote:

I do stand by the idea that factory paint often has *lots* of orange peel, though. That one can be proven pretty easily.

I was in a body shop yesterday, after my truck broke a hose lifting their dumpster. I was just chewing the fat with the owner, as we looked at a maroon pickup, still in fresh filler on the rear taillight/bumper area. It was gorgeous from about 20 feet, except for the bondo part... as we got closer, I couldn't help but ask "How will you match that orange peel?" He smiled huge, and said "it's not hard when it's that bad!" I don't pretend to know how he's going to do it, but it WAS really bad! A great 20 footer, though. His personal pickup was also sitting there in hot rod satin black and flames..so smooth... it must be a bummer to have to orange peel on purpose!

Also...if I had Ron's bikes, I'd keep them pristine, like they are. My bike is a toy for me. It was already repainted in a scheme I didn't like when I bought it, and I play around with it in many ways. Mostly I just ride it, and I know he does that, too...more than most...Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

Post edited by: ronboskz650sr, at: 2005/11/22 17:31