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TOPIC: Condition inside the gas tank

Condition inside the gas tank 02 Oct 2018 11:42 #791707

  • gordone
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I have recived a small camera from eBay today, and wanted to try to record the condition inside the gas tank.
I must warn you my recording skills hehe it was not so easy.... to go everywhere inside the gas tank.

What do you think, must I do something with the tank ? I found it not so bad? but not perfect?

I have three videos:

01.
streamable.com/52t3l

02.
streamable.com/8icrv

03.
streamable.com/sxxdf
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Condition inside the gas tank 02 Oct 2018 14:03 #791720

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I have seen more rusty tanks like yours not the pefect condition inside but useable.
If you have no rust particels inside your carb bowels it´s okay.
If yes yes, fill the tank with small nuts and bolts and 2 Liter of bio diesel and shake him like hell to loosen the rust.
Repeat it if nessasary.

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Condition inside the gas tank 02 Oct 2018 15:26 #791725

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Phosphoric acid is what I recommend. It's commonly available in the USA but not sure about your area. Remove all the existing plugs and fashion sealing plates and/or plugs instead for all the tanks openings. Also get some alcohol and WD-40, and right after rinsing the phosphate out hit the tank with the drying agent to prevent flash rust.
The following user(s) said Thank You: Dach Savage

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Condition inside the gas tank 02 Oct 2018 15:42 #791726

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Like Nessism explain, you can go the chemical way of de-rusting your tank.
But you have to degrease your tank inside with a strong alkaline Solutions to let the Phosphoric acid work perfectly.

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Condition inside the gas tank 03 Oct 2018 08:24 #791765

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Thank you both, I have no problem with rust flakes in the carb bowl.
I thing I will fill the tank full and add some anti condensation fluid to the gas.

And then prepare for a rust removing process next winter, I need to find some one with the acid....

Good plan ? No urgent to-do it these winter?
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Condition inside the gas tank 06 Nov 2018 17:52 #793489

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Neat pictures, I have thought about doing this with one of the Milwaukee inspection cameras that I have been drooling after. I am no Kaw expert but have owned numerous bikes over the years that I have had to deal with rusty tankage. That said, the rust inside yours doesn't look all that bad but it probably wouldn't hurt to slosh it with some nuts and such just to try to knock off any loose rust flakes. Your video kind of reminded me of my recent video colonoscopy... They gave me the DVD to watch at my leisure, after viewing it I kinda felt I would have been better off not to have watched it LOL. Good luck with the de-rusting... Dach.
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are" - Theodore Roosevelt

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Condition inside the gas tank 07 Nov 2018 00:42 #793506

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Dach Savage wrote: Neat pictures, I have thought about doing this with one of the Milwaukee inspection cameras that I have been drooling after. I am no Kaw expert but have owned numerous bikes over the years that I have had to deal with rusty tankage. That said, the rust inside yours doesn't look all that bad but it probably wouldn't hurt to slosh it with some nuts and such just to try to knock off any loose rust flakes. Your video kind of reminded me of my recent video colonoscopy... They gave me the DVD to watch at my leisure, after viewing it I kinda felt I would have been better off not to have watched it LOL. Good luck with the de-rusting... Dach.


Thank you for your replay, I haven`t decided if I do is these winter or purpose to next winter, I will see.
I have the same perception as you these is not urgent, but good to be done...
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Condition inside the gas tank 07 Nov 2018 06:00 #793518

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My tank looks good where you can see looking into the opening. but there was rust at the bottom.
I treated the tank with a 50:50 mix of muriatic acid + water. There's still rust, but it hasn't been a problem.
I have drained the tank & checked the petcock filter screen. and I have checked the carburetor float bowls.
Also. I installed an in-line fuel filter. ....note: muriatic acid = dilute HCL. concentration varies but 20% concentration was used.

PS: what camera did you get? Thanks. JMK.

....

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Last edit: by martin_csr.

Condition inside the gas tank 07 Nov 2018 08:23 #793521

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Havn't pulled the trigger on the Milwaukee unit due to the cost and low usage. I will probably wait until I run into something pressing and get one then, Sounds like you have the rusting issue well in hand at least for now. Cheers! Dach.
"Do what you can, with what you have, where you are" - Theodore Roosevelt

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Condition inside the gas tank 07 Nov 2018 09:07 #793522

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I would put an inline filter twixt the tank and the carbs just to be sure. They dont cost much and can save you a load of grief. You might still have problems with the petcock if you have CV carbs but throw yourself off that bridge when you come to it.
For de-rusting the tank next year ,Ive had good results with brown vinegar and soda. Though it takes a while ( 2 weeks in my case) it worked very well. The only thing I would do different would be to rinse with diesel rather than WD40 at the end of the process to stop flash rust. Other people swear by cola but I found that vinegar was cheaper (lidels best ).
Good luck with it.

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Condition inside the gas tank 12 Nov 2018 11:34 #793720

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Thank you all, I have heard many good thing by using phosphoric acid also ?
Use water to mix it to down to 30 % ?

1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
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Condition inside the gas tank 12 Nov 2018 14:46 #793731

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The POR15 tank prep kit has a 23% phosphoric acid solution, so you have to add 2 Liter of water to your (1 Liter) 75% phosphoric acid for the right mixture.

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Condition inside the gas tank 12 Nov 2018 15:31 #793737

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Make sure you flush it out real good and coat the inside with something or it will flash rust fairly quickly.
78 KZ1000 A2A

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Condition inside the gas tank 12 Nov 2018 15:47 #793738

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bluej58 wrote:
Make sure you flush it out real good and coat the inside with something or it will flash rust fairly quickly.


The phosphoric acid solution create a zinc layer on the iron surface = no flash rust after you flush out other acids like HCL (hydrochloric acid) or H2SO4 (sulfuric acid).

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Condition inside the gas tank 12 Nov 2018 21:47 #793744

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Thank you, I understand hot water stabilize the acid.

1.
How much in total liquid should I have in the tank? I don’t want to fill up the whole tank because you need oxygen? So I need to rool the tank around all the time to weet the surface or?

2.
How long time shall I have it in the tank, to next day?
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Condition inside the gas tank 12 Nov 2018 23:29 #793747

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No, gordone hot water or/and heat will accelarate the acid reaction.
1 Liter of your 75% phosphoric acid mixed with 2 Liter of hot water is ok.
Shake and roll the tank every 10 minutes for an hour should be okay.
But it is more importent to degrease the inner tank surface before you can use any acid to react against the rust inside.

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Last edit: by Scirocco.

Condition inside the gas tank 13 Nov 2018 01:58 #793749

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Scirocco wrote: No, gordone hot water or/and heat will accelarate the acid reaction.
1 Liter of your 75% phosphoric acid mixed with 2 Liter of hot water is ok.
Shake and roll the tank every 10 minutes for an hour should be okay.
But it is more importent to degrease the inner tank surface before you can use any acid to react against the rust inside.


I understand, thank you !

1. What is the best to use for degrease and not damage the paint on the outside?

2. What do I use to remove the acid after, alot of fresh water ?

3. Dry the tank with hair dryier

4. Spray alot of WD40 inside and turn it around, and the tank is ready for a new season later?

5. When season start clean it with some gas....

6. Fill it up with fresh gas ?
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Condition inside the gas tank 13 Nov 2018 04:48 #793751

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Hot soapy water and a vigorous shake followed by a good rise of clean water should break down and remove the oils in your tank.

I would use the same procedure to remove the acid.

A hair dryer works well

I use Marvel Mystery Oil mixed with gas ,
it's 2 main ingredients are as per Wiki;
Petroleum Distillates (Hydrotreated Heavy Naphthenic) also known as mineral oil, 60-100%[2]
Petroleum Distillates (Stoddard Solvent) also known as white spirit, 10-30%[2]

I like WD-40 for combating oxidation on aluminum but I know it is a rust inhibitor too, they have never released the formula (trade secret) but wiki says this:
The German version of the mandatory EU safety sheet lists the following safety-relevant ingredients:
60–80% hydrogen-treated heavy naphtha (a petroleum product used in wick-type cigarette lighters)
1–5% carbon dioxide

Lastly, flush out with fresh gas when ready to use

Good luck!
78 KZ1000 A2A

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Last edit: by bluej58.

Condition inside the gas tank 13 Nov 2018 07:34 #793759

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After draining the acid rinse with water with a garden hose. Shake out as much water you can then dump half a spray can of wd40. Turn the tank around so you cover the entire inside of the tank. Shake out. Then heat with a hair dryer through the filler cap and tank sander hole and turn the tank around so that the water is not left sitting in one spot. Heat, turn, heat turn until no water is present approx 30 min. Don't use a heat gun as it will heat the paint to much.
I usually start with usual degreaser and a hand full of dry wall screws and shake the tank for a good 15 min and rinse before I fill it up with acid.

Brgds Anders

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Condition inside the gas tank 22 Jan 2019 12:51 #797308

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When I use phosphoric acid, shall I only weet the surface so alot of oxsygen willaccess the surface?

Said another way, is there a good point to not kerp the surface under water/acid?

Better to have only 0,5liter instead of 2 liter?
And just rull the tank around each 10min for a ahour?
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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