Engine Paint Questions

Hey KZR,

First off I did a number of searches on the boards to try to find out the answer myself, and I got part of what I needed answered but not the rest of it so figured I would just make a post and ask. With the move and all of the other happenings right now $$$ for the project has tanked and won't have any funding for a while. So to stay productive and keep making progress to shine up the GPz I wanted to start rubbing on her to bring back the finish of all of the parts that I can back to showroom quality. After 31+ years the paint is still in great shape but there are nicks, scratches, fading, flaking etc etc of all of the panels, frame, bodywork, engine, head and covers etc. Wont be doing anything with the bodywork for now as that is a much bigger and much pricier job, but I did want to address the engine, head and covers as well as brackets that are bolted onto the frame.

I plan on removing the valve cover and cleaning that up then shooting it and installing again. This brings me to my first question... I can easily take the cover off and spray it. What I DONT have is a blast cabinet or anything so I cannot blast the surface to get every trace of everything off. So I will have to strip the cover myself. What I don't know is whether it is necessary for me to strip it to bare metal by hand, or can I use brushes, scotchbrite pads, sandpaper etc to get most of the old paint and muck off and then degrease and spray the cover?

My next question is about the paint itself, I have read lots of posts with people using POR 15, PJ1, BBQ paint, appliance epoxy and even engine enamel from Duplicator or VHT etc. I do not have access to a paint gun so I will have to do this from a rattle can, with enough prep and time spent I have no doubt that I can get a quality finish as a final product. Color is still going to be black and I would like to do some kind of satin finish if possible so that it doesn't already look sun faded (flat black) or show any amount of imperfection like gloss would. What would be a good general consensus for a decent rattle can satin paint that will hold up to these conditions? Does a primer need to be shot first to help make the paint adhere and last longer with a good finish?

My final question is a bit of a doozy I am sure…. I would like to spray the engine (specifically the jugs) as well when I do this. Yes, the engine is still in the bike and I am not going to pull it and disassemble just to put a coat of paint on it. I am fully aware that this is less than ideal and that the final product and look of the paint would not be anywhere near as nice as if the engine was out and disassembled, this just isn't an option for $$$ reasons and not going to disassemble the bike in the middle of prime riding season. I don't mind it being down for a few days while I mask, clean and paint it though.

So has anyone tried painting an engine while in the frame still? I know I will have to spend a very long time masking things off correctly which is something I am familiar and adept at so not concerned there. My concern is with what type of paint, what prep work, and just like the valve cover I don't have a blast cabinet or spray booth so will have to clean and prep by hand using brushes, scotchbrite pads and sand paper. Any tips for how to prep it, do I have to get to bare metal or just get it nice and clean and remove as much paint as I can?

As I said, I completely comprehend that this is less than ideal, but I am trying to work with what I have as an option so that I can fix this eyesore that is bugging me. Here is a good pic of the cover and jugs to show what I mean, its not terrible but it is faded and the eye (for me at least) is drawn to it and bugs me every time I see it so trying to work with what I can.

So to sum up the questions:

Do I have to take to bare metal, or can I strip as much as I can by hand and then prep and paint?
What paint should be used to get a satin and hard durable finish? Should some type of clear be used and just live with the finish being gloss instead?
Tips for painting the jugs while still on the bike and in the frame?

Thanks,
Brett

I've done a couple of those in-frame refresh jobs. Degrease, remove any loose paint and corrosion using scotchbrite, stainless steel wire wheel, etc, and then degrease again. Some paints recommend a primer and others don't. The info is on the can.

I used VH1 Engine paint on my 750E but don't recommend it. It's very brittle paint and prone to chips, and not very chemical resistant too. Years ago I used PJ1 satin black and it looked great. There is some chatter on the internet about how the formula changed though. I don't recommend Por-15 Engine enamel because I used some on my Suzuki and the silver turned dark right away. The black may be fine but I had a bad experience so there you have it.

BTW, be sure to adjust your valves while the valve cover is off.

Nessism wrote: I've done a couple of those in-frame refresh jobs. Degrease, remove any loose paint and corrosion using scotchbrite, stainless steel wire wheel, etc, and then degrease again. Some paints recommend a primer and others don't. The info is on the can.

I used VH1 Engine paint on my 750E but don't recommend it. It's very brittle paint and prone to chips, and not very chemical resistant too. Years ago I used PJ1 satin black and it looked great. There is some chatter on the internet about how the formula changed though. I don't recommend Por-15 Engine enamel because I used some on my Suzuki and the silver turned dark right away. The black may be fine but I had a bad experience so there you have it.

BTW, be sure to adjust your valves while the valve cover is off.

Thanks Ed, that is exactly the type of info and feedback I was looking for! I have read great things about PJ1 but have also seen many threads saying the formula is different like you were saying so not sure if that is still the right answer or not. Wonder if anyone has used it recently and has something to share?

As for the valves, that was absolutely the plan. No reason to take the cover off and go that far just to not check what the clearances are while I am in there. :lol:

Thanks,
Brett

My tuppence worth. I would strip all the plastic off the bike,take it to your local ? garage/petrol station/car wash (dont know how it is in your land) To a power washer,is my point. Blast the 'grit' out of it! Dosnt matter what paint youre going to use,if its not totally clean,its a waste of time and money.Be ruthless with the power washer, though take it easy around the ports and gasket points.
You shouldnt need to sand it back to bare metal,If the old paint is still holding on (the power washer will get rid of any loose paint) it should be good.I would scotchbrite the whole thing ( which is not fun even when the engine is out) and blend out any patches around the bare metal parts.
I used PJ1 years ago with great results so I turned to it again for my current build. New formula,they say.Fair enough. It went on very well and looked absolutly fantastic. I went with the satin finish. I was very happy with the result. Unfortunately,I had the cans in a bucket of warm water to preheat them a bit and the labels came off so,I have no idea what the process for curing was meant to be.I emailed PJ1 a couple of times but they werent interested enough to respond.
So the bike is still not complete and the engine hasnt run since I sprayed it,the paint is still holding on but is a very matt black now. Im afraid to wash it in case I rub the paint off to be honest.
Thats it.Good luck and I hope you have patience young jedi.

Thanks David appreciate the suggestions and experience with the PJ1 sounds like it may be the right answer assuming I can cure mine with it running. I have access to a power washer so that should be pretty simple to do. Should be able to start on this next weekend so will post some pics when I can.

Not fun and certainly a PITA but patience as you said is key, spent two weeks solid 10+hrs a day wet sanding the Camaro in the driveway, I can do it again hahaha :lol:

Thanks again!
Brett

I use the PJI Satin Black For my GPZ Restorations.

I used the VHT engine enamel in a satin black flavor on my motor. Granted I have the luxury to blast parts up to the size of an 18" wheel, I still found myself using steel brushes and red brillo pads. A few personal tips I acquired along the way....Use the stainless brush with the wood handle and sand down the corners and top of the wood to give it a lower profile to get further into them hard to reach spots. If you use the plastic handle ones, you'll (your knuckles actually) find out very quickly that it sucks when it breaks to an unusable length after putting to my pressure on it. The steel brushes used to clean gun barrels are nifty. I also used some tubular sandpaper that would normally be used for Porting/polishing. A Dremel can be a good friend also.
As Davido said, if it's not clean/degreased, before painting, all other efforts will be a waste of time. Simple green or Purple power mixed with Hot water goes along way, less risk of tainting the frame if that's colored already. Plus its nature friendly. Although I'd rather use gas or brake cleaner. Oh and before laying the paint, heat up the work surface if possible, I jused map gas then check with a temp gun to get it to about 80*.

ed

DFIGPZ wrote: I use the PJI Satin Black For my GPZ Restorations.

thanks DFI, located some on Amazin Prime that I can get shipped to my door that's what I will be trying

Brett

I_Tig_in_piece wrote: I used the VHT engine enamel in a satin black flavor on my motor. Granted I have the luxury to blast parts up to the size of an 18" wheel, I still found myself using steel brushes and red brillo pads. A few personal tips I acquired along the way....Use the stainless brush with the wood handle and sand down the corners and top of the wood to give it a lower profile to get further into them hard to reach spots. If you use the plastic handle ones, you'll (your knuckles actually) find out very quickly that it sucks when it breaks to an unusable length after putting to my pressure on it. The steel brushes used to clean gun barrels are nifty. I also used some tubular sandpaper that would normally be used for Porting/polishing. A Dremel can be a good friend also.
As Davido said, if it's not clean/degreased, before painting, all other efforts will be a waste of time. Simple green or Purple power mixed with Hot water goes along way, less risk of tainting the frame if that's colored already. Plus its nature friendly. Although I'd rather use gas or brake cleaner. Oh and before laying the paint, heat up the work surface if possible, I jused map gas then check with a temp gun to get it to about 80*.

ed

. Great info Ed thanks a lot, I've got a map gas torch I will use and will pick up some brushes too

Brett

Hi Brett,

I faced the same issues with my 550a. It was a gift to me and in good, running condition so I was reluctant to do anything drastic as you are saying because I didn't want to stop riding it long enough. As Ness stated, while I had the valve cover off for shim work, I chose to do a little engine tidy-up too. The valve cover was probably the easiest since it's off. I don't even have any of my power tools like the drill press handy here so everything was done by hand. I used all the old "punish your body, not your wallet" approach that you are familiar with which means - wire brushes assortment, several sandpapers and scotchbrite pads. Ultimately, the wire brushes and thinly rolled-up (like cigarette sized tubes) of sandpaper were most useful to get into all the snug areas. Just sat on the back patio in the evenings and cleaned until I was happy.
It occurred to me that much of the engine isn't really visible so I repainted the valve cover but chose to sand/polish-up the ends only which I had seen here on other bikes. You can see it here:


I found that when repainting, it was really useful to have a selection of artist's paintbrushes handy. I would spray the paint into it's rattle can lid and then dip the brush into it and hand paint areas which saved me from blasting at the engine with the rattle can. If you look at the timing cover, the passenger foot peg mount and much of the upper engine - cylinders and head, they were all hand painted with just brushes dipped into the rattle can's lid.

As for paint... Well, I actually chose BBQ paint because of the heat factor and I found that even while it's "flat" or "matte" finish, after I ran the bike for a while and the paint got good and cured, I was able to kinda' hand-buff it with soft cloth and it kinda' made it shine a wee bit more which brought it closer to the satin range from the matte range of finish. To be honest though, I kinda wished I hadn't done that because the rest of the engine's black is still original and thus, matte/flat due to age.

Cost wise, I've probably spent less than a handful of singles on the engine's looks so definitely on my budget and now the looks are in keeping with a presentable but still on the road bike.

That is a really really clean 550 Wrench, thanks for sharing!! Really appreciate the tips too, I like the idea of using brushes on some of those hard to reach areas so that you aren't just wasting paint trying to spray it in, will definitely be pirating that technique

BBQ paint would certainly be cheaper, the PJ1 I found on Amazin Prime was $16-18 shipped. Not terrible but hey gotta believe there's a cheaper option too though so we shall see. The only partial hang up is a new valve cover gasket for the cover and locating that one and how much it is. Would like to check the valve clearance while I am at it but have to verify that the replacement gasket isn't too punishing for me. Love and hate this move, great to be in a bigger and nicer place and have a garage but it has completely sucked dry any $$$ I had stashed for th bike (not that there was a ton stashed to begin with hahahaha ) but what's life without a bit of weaseling and figuring out how to still get chit done

Thanks again my friend and keep up the project on KZombie, loving the read and posts whenever you crank out another periodical of Wrenchmonkey's Whitty Wandering Writings

Brett

Hey Brett,

I just recently completed a move too. Same thing. I'm happy for the bigger garage but it's hectic getting through the move, all the while your life is in boxes here ... or are the boxes over there? Moving turns simple tasks like getting dressed or making coffee a challenge when you realize your (thing needed now) is at a different address already. Well, that sucks. Guess I'll be wearing sandals to work today! :laugh:

As for the engine paint. Most auto parts stores carry High Temp and also Very High Temp paint. They almost all have the basic colors of black, blue, orange etc as they're made for engines. I'm not 100% if they have different finishes like matte, satin, gloss but the paint is way more budget friendly. I mean, the paint I just bought for KZombie is about $30 per can and that blue was one of the lessor priced colors. I was ogling a gold - pagan gold by HoK and it was $90 a can. :blink:

I've used High Temp paints on engines before and had great results. I remember now the last time I used it was semi-gloss and I also used it [ on the mag wheels to touch-up stone chips ] . Same dealio - spray where you can, spray into cup and brush-on where you cannot. Oh. Here's an example of what I have used before: [ Semi Gloss Engine Paint ] . A little more budget friendly to keep your ride looking good while you're still riding it.