Welcome, Guest
Username: Password: Remember me

TOPIC:

Stator parasitic drain? 02 Aug 2022 15:54 #871535

  • Wookie58
  • Wookie58's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 851
  • Thank you received: 326

So with everything connected except the brown wire, I put the black lead to the brown wire and the red lead to the positive on the battery and got 12v. That's with the key out of the ignition. Switching the leads I got 0v I wasn't sure exactly which leads to where for that test. However I checked the green with only that disconnected and everything else plugged in and got 0v. I put the crank case with the stator back on but I can easily just take it off again. What if I left everything plugged in but just removed the case with the stator attached and let it sit on a bucket? Would that help me to tell if its the stator grounding out of if its something with the key switch?

Ok so the brown showing ground with the ignition off is what you would expect, none of the consumers in the ign circuit are drawing current so they will show continuity to ground through the consumers (neutral light, oil pressure light etc) the green and black are the field winding not the stator so removing the start or would have no effect. I will need to look at the manual to see the set up of the field winding, something is not making sense
Can I confirm how you are measuring lithe drain and where ?
1982 KZ1000 Ltd

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Wookie58.

Stator parasitic drain? 02 Aug 2022 16:42 #871546

  • jrider24
  • jrider24's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 41
  • Thank you received: 0
I first measured the drain testing amp draw by putting the black lead to the negative on the battery and the positive on the unconnected negative battery cable lead with the positive connected normally. I followed a video by erick the car guy.  I measured like 2 amps. I then unplugged fuses and cables till it dropped and read 0 when I unplugged the connector I mentioned. I assumed this meant that was where my drain was. Ive been doing the test you have mentioned so far with the leads to what you have mentioned each time and have been testing DCv. I also left everything hooked up normally overnight once except for unplugging the original connector mentioned before and there was no drain the next morining so that helped confirm that either the green or black wires and what they were connected to were my problem. I therefore assumed the stator since that is the only thing it is connected to. I am also confused no as it seems the previous tests have all pointed to the stator but now this last round of tests seems to negate that. I could try and get some pictures with the connections and the meter but itll be a bit till I can. 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stator parasitic drain? 03 Aug 2022 12:36 #871614

  • Wookie58
  • Wookie58's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 851
  • Thank you received: 326

I first measured the drain testing amp draw by putting the black lead to the negative on the battery and the positive on the unconnected negative battery cable lead with the positive connected normally. I followed a video by erick the car guy.  I measured like 2 amps. I then unplugged fuses and cables till it dropped and read 0 when I unplugged the connector I mentioned. I assumed this meant that was where my drain was. Ive been doing the test you have mentioned so far with the leads to what you have mentioned each time and have been testing DCv. I also left everything hooked up normally overnight once except for unplugging the original connector mentioned before and there was no drain the next morining so that helped confirm that either the green or black wires and what they were connected to were my problem. I therefore assumed the stator since that is the only thing it is connected to. I am also confused no as it seems the previous tests have all pointed to the stator but now this last round of tests seems to negate that. I could try and get some pictures with the connections and the meter but itll be a bit till I can. 

OK so first off you are measuring the drain correctly and 2.0amps is significant (same as leaving the brake light on all night) Your set up doesn't have a "stator as such" this is why you have a separate regulator and rectifier - your system has two sets of windings that have no physical connection to each other, these are the armature (yellow wires) and the field coils (green and black wires) FYI bikes with a stator have no field windings but have a permanent magnet on the rotor - In your case the armature output runs through the rectifier and to the battery. The field coil is controlled by the regulator, this senses voltage on the brown ign live and modulates the output on the green wire to the field coil to control the charge rate by changing the strength of the magnetic field created.
So this is where it gets crazy -
  • The armature has no connection to ground and can not receive a supply back from the battery anyway as it is blocked by the diodes in the rectifier which you have tested as OK
  • The field coil receives a feed on the green wire from the regulator when the ignition is on (tests have suggested the field coil is shorting to ground)
  • You have said that the brown wire has no voltage when the key is in the "off" position and shows ground which is what I would expect through the warning lights with no current flowing.
With all of the above in mind if your test results are correct there is no logical explanation as to where the power supply is coming from on the green wire to drain to ground through the field coil. When the green and black are disconnected from the regulator the green should not be showing a ground through the field coil however this should only be an issue when the ignition is on (and it would depend on which point the short is as to how much effect it would have on generator output) Try connecting everything back up then disconnect the armature plug with the three yellow wires - I think you need to have a real good look for loom damage or splices that don't belong as this makes no sense

 
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Wookie58.

Stator parasitic drain? 03 Aug 2022 15:42 #871633

  • jrider24
  • jrider24's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 41
  • Thank you received: 0
Pictures

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stator parasitic drain? 03 Aug 2022 15:43 #871634

  • jrider24
  • jrider24's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 41
  • Thank you received: 0
More pictures

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stator parasitic drain? 03 Aug 2022 15:46 #871635

  • jrider24
  • jrider24's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 41
  • Thank you received: 0
Okay so I took all the pictures. They should all be in order of the tests I did. Hopefully you can zoom in a bit on them to see the connections as the black wire disconnected kind of blends in but I believe all of the pictures match what I found previously. The only thing is if I messed up the leads somehow. Please let me know if everything I did looks okay or not. Thank you!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stator parasitic drain? 03 Aug 2022 16:11 #871636

  • Wookie58
  • Wookie58's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 851
  • Thank you received: 326
What is the purpose of this relay (red circle) and why do the green - black - brown wires appear to be going to it they should be going to the regulator (see picture below ) 
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Wookie58.

Stator parasitic drain? 03 Aug 2022 17:35 #871642

  • jrider24
  • jrider24's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 41
  • Thank you received: 0
Oh man. Thats what was on the bike when I bought it. I assumed it was the rectifier since thats where all the wires went but I guess he put in a relay instead of a new rectifier? So you're telling me thats not a rectifier then?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Stator parasitic drain? 04 Aug 2022 00:39 #871662

  • Wookie58
  • Wookie58's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 851
  • Thank you received: 326

Oh man. Thats what was on the bike when I bought it. I assumed it was the rectifier since thats where all the wires went but I guess he put in a relay instead of a new rectifier? So you're telling me thats not a rectifier then?

No that's not a regulator, the example I showed is one of several on EBay currently. Second hand parts are always a gamble but you will probably struggle to buy NOS. this is probably the reason the field coil is going to earth (or the field coil earth could be the cause of the original regulator failure) either way you need to replace both parts. Before you do I would take the time to check all of the wiring for any other "repairs" 
PS: how many wires are connected to that relay ?
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
The following user(s) said Thank You: jrider24

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Wookie58.

Stator parasitic drain? 04 Aug 2022 17:01 #871698

  • jrider24
  • jrider24's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • User
  • Posts: 41
  • Thank you received: 0
link

Its got 5 going to it. Are there any aftermarket options that would work? Would the one below for a later year model work or would I have to go with a used original?
 

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by jrider24.

Stator parasitic drain? 05 Aug 2022 00:20 #871707

  • Wookie58
  • Wookie58's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 851
  • Thank you received: 326

link

Its got 5 going to it. Are there any aftermarket options that would work? Would the one below for a later year model work or would I have to go with a used original?




 

According to the diagram it should only have three to the regulator so I am sure this relay setup is the source of all your problems. I would recommend that you take the time to compare the bike to the wiring diagram and remove any "additions" that the PO has installed. I am sure there are aftermarket alternatives ( possibly even a combined Regulator/rectifier) but you will need to do your research to ensure it is suitable for the generator setup you have with a "field coil". Field coils seem to be around $40 - $80 on EBay (there was a NOS one for $400  ) The unit in the link you posted from a later model would not work with your setup as it is for a stator/permanent magnet setup

 
1982 KZ1000 Ltd
Attachments:

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Wookie58.

Stator parasitic drain? 05 Aug 2022 01:01 #871709

  • Wookie58
  • Wookie58's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Sustaining Member
  • Posts: 851
  • Thank you received: 326
The below thread may help with getting the right Regulator

www.kzrider.com/forum/4-electrical/60175...rade-to-combined-r-r
1982 KZ1000 Ltd

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Powered by Kunena Forum