Lithium Battery Question

Scirocco wrote: The LiFe-Po battery i bought for 100 Euros is in use on stock Regulator and starting my bike so easy.
Stock battery = 4,90 Kg
LiFe-Po battery = 0,90 Kg
any questions???

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is a Lithium Ion battery in your picture, not a Lithium Potasium

Rick H. wrote:
What meaning do the tags or decals have on your registration plates?

Technical inspection every two years

Just as a follow up to my original post, there was an interesting article in the July issue of Rider Magazine on this very subject. The author was pretty pro making the change to Lithium as long as your bike has a relatively stable charging system voltage of at least 13.1 volts at idle and 13.6 volts at speed. More food for thought for me.

Rick H.

I'd like to add my 0.02 here...

Lithium Ion batteries are generally built with 3.7V cells.
Cell phones and smaller devices use a single cell, 4.2V is considered a full charge and 3.2V is "dead" or discharged.
Some devices need more power, and use a 2 cell (like modern two-way handheld radios) so they use a two 3.7 cell battery (in series) so you get 7.2V (8.4V full charge, 6.4V Discharged).
Lithium Ion batteries do NOT like being totally discharged. They also like a slow steady smooth charge, IE from a wall AC to DC adapter. This is normally done in two (sometimes 3) stages: Current is applied until the battery is up to voltage, then the voltage is held steady and current is reduced until a full charge is achieved, so there is some digital monitoring involved. This can be built into a battery pack (some have small circuit boards inside the battery "casing").

The reason I mention the cells and voltages is a 12V lead acid battery usually charges up to around 13.5V. This is a wierd, inbetween voltage for any Lithium Ion battery that is based on the 3.7V cell (which is darn near all of them, as far as I can tell). For 12V you need 3 cells, which gives you a full charge voltage of 12.6V with a nominal voltage of 11.1 volts. That's a bit low for 12V automotive applications and overcharging a Li-Ion with a non-modified charging system usually makes for some unwanted excitement (like fire).

So, lets add another cell and make it 4 cell: 16.8V full charge, 14.8V nominal voltage. Way too high for anything 12V based, it would actually be discharged by the charging system and the battery would be shot in short order.

I had a friend try one in his bike (2002 GSXR-1000) and the battery didn't last a month. I don't think he did anything to the charging system.

My battery knowledge comes from several areas: Working at a Motorola dealer as a tech (Experience with NiCd, NiMH, Li-Ion batteries for portable radios) and also using ecigarettes (built my own) which nearly all of them use Li-Ion cells, be it the 18650 "tube" shaped batteries or a RC car style Lithium Polymer battery. Have also done some fooling around with solar power and storing the extra energy in batteries. Have rebuilt 20V tool batteries too (they use 18650's except for some of the new ones that use 20700 or 21700's).

The only way I would put a lithium ion battery in my bike is if it comes with a specialized regulator / rectifier with some sort of filter capacitor to keep the voltage at a nice steady 12.6V. And do NOT buy a cheap Li-Ion from China, you will get ripped off.

If I am wrong on any of the points I have made, please correct me. I would be happy to answer any more questions.

Oldjeep wrote:

Scirocco wrote: The LiFe-Po battery i bought for 100 Euros is in use on stock Regulator and starting my bike so easy.
Stock battery = 4,90 Kg
LiFe-Po battery = 0,90 Kg
any questions???

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is a Lithium Ion battery in your picture, not a Lithium Potasium

The "Po" is short for Polymer.

I’ve been running lithium batteries on my zr550 for about 5 years with good results, once I took precautions to avoid extreme discharge situations. I’ve had two batteries. The first was a Battery Tender brand, which died after about a year because my alarm system kept running it down (as someone mentioned previously, they don’t recover well from complete discharge). Then I got a Shorai and installed a voltage cutoff circuit to cut off power to the alarm if the battery voltage dropped too low. No problems for 4 years on the Shorai and it still cranks incredibly hard.

jlaudiofan wrote:

Oldjeep wrote:

Scirocco wrote: The LiFe-Po battery i bought for 100 Euros is in use on stock Regulator and starting my bike so easy.
Stock battery = 4,90 Kg
LiFe-Po battery = 0,90 Kg
any questions???

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is a Lithium Ion battery in your picture, not a Lithium Potasium

The "Po" is short for Polymer.

Actually we are both wrong. It stands for phosfate according to the mfg. Lithium iron phosfate

LiPo is short for Lithium-Ion Polymer.
Lithium Iron Phosphate (LiFePO4) is one of the different types of chemical compositions that make up the electrolyte.
The PO and Po are referring to different things

I think if it has a capital P and capital O then there should also be a 4 (ignoring subscripts). PO4 is phosphate.

I knew I should have paid closer attention in Chemistry class! Way over my head. I think to be safe I will just stay with a normal run of the mill battery and cast weight concerns to the wind. Poor KZ has to haul my weight around so what difference does it really make with a normal battery. I dislike things like unexpected fires anyway.
Rick H.