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TOPIC: Charging woes :(

Charging woes :( 14 Mar 2019 19:11 #800368

  • Trackerkz650sr
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Hey guys im in a jam and could use some guidance

Bike is a 1978 kz650 sr d model

My battery voltage drops from 12 to 11 volts as soon as i turn the key on which seems quite drastic

After a short ride the battery is at 4 volts or so
If i unplug the battery the volts start climbing


My questions are what is the perimiters for testing the stator?

How do i test the regulator?

And what grounds are needed?
The one behind the chain case cover (sproket side) is not connected to anything. I only have battery to ground on the motor case next to the kickstart


Is that sufficient or could my problem be that ground


Thanks in advance guys

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Charging woes :( 15 Mar 2019 05:31 #800371

  • hardrockminer
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This video isn't for a 650 but it should help.

I ride Z1's. I have a couple of '75's, plus an '80 KZ1000LTD. My lovely Sweetums rids a 1981 KZ550.

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Charging woes :( 15 Mar 2019 07:34 #800375

  • TexasKZ
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The factory service manual has detailed testing procedures
If that is indeed a ground wire behind the sprocket cover, it needs to be connected to ground. Also be sure that the ground connections are clean and snug.
With the little information you have, my first suspect would be the battery, but you really should make systematic checks before tossing money at the problem.
I think the 1978 D1 and D1A had a single phase Dynamo, so the testing procedure will be a bit different from the video .
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough

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Last edit: by TexasKZ.

Charging woes :( 15 Mar 2019 07:47 #800376

  • Warren3200gt
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Unless its totally unlike other 650's which I doubt, the only wires behind the sprocket cover are the stator, starter motor live and the neutral light indicator switch. Does the neutral light come on when the ignition is on? Does the starter motor turn?
Other than that, as Texas says, check your earth to the engine case and test you battery.
75 z1b, 77 z650 b1, 77 z650 b1 period custom, 77 z1000 a1, 82 z1100 elr, 89 zxr750h1

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Last edit: by Warren3200gt.

Charging woes :( 15 Mar 2019 10:03 #800383

  • gordone
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You are sure you don’t have a shortcut to ground?

Measure current consumtion with a multimeter?

If power drops when you turn the key, and you have charged the battery, I will say bad battery or leaking current to frame/ground.
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

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www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Charging woes :( 15 Mar 2019 10:21 #800384

  • Trackerkz650sr
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Ive had a few kz650s and they all have had a ground cable coming from behind the sproket cover.

I will replace it and hook it to the battery to see if it helps.

Bike runs great until the battery dies down

No neutral light etc. Its a custom build with a very simple harness.

To simplify my question
I have a 3 prong plug from my stator to the regulator
2 yellow and what appears to be a black or brown

What is the correct voltage these should read at idle and unplugged from the regulator?

(Trying to see if the regulator is faulty, it did get wet)


Story on the battery
Since this kind of no start issue started
I took the battery back and it in fact tested bad dropped a cell
So this one is new as of yesterday.

Thanks again for your input fellas

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Charging woes :( 15 Mar 2019 10:36 #800385

  • 650ed
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I would strongly encourage you to consult the Kawasaki Service Manual for you exact model KZ650. Keep in mind that Kawasaki used 5 different charging systems on the KZ650 bikes, and the charging systems varied depending on the exact year and model. The Kawasaki Service Manual will tell you how to troubleshoot the problem. Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)
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Charging woes :( 15 Mar 2019 10:50 #800387

  • Warren3200gt
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Trackerkz650sr wrote: Ive had a few kz650s and they all have had a ground cable coming from behind the sproket cover.

Now I'm intrigued. I have rebuilt several 650's and they all have the battery earth bolting to the engine on the right by the kick start. None have an earth in the sprocket case, although I've never rebuilt an SR
75 z1b, 77 z650 b1, 77 z650 b1 period custom, 77 z1000 a1, 82 z1100 elr, 89 zxr750h1

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Charging woes :( 15 Mar 2019 11:04 #800388

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If the wire in question is small diameter, say 14 gauge, it is either the neutral switch wire or a harness ground. Like the others here, I suspect it is for the neutral switch. Either way, it should not be connected to the battery. The battery ground, as Warren3200gt stated, goes directly from the battery - post to the engine case.
The correct service manual is crucial in this case. Unfortunately, both of the 650 manuals posted here are for three phase models. Hopefully, somebody has a link to the proper one. It would also be a good idea to be trolling fleabay for one.
1982 KZ1000 LTD parts donor
1981 KZ1000 LTD awaiting resurrection
2000 ZRX1100 not ridden enough
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Charging woes :( 15 Mar 2019 11:11 #800389

  • Warren3200gt
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Are you sure your not confusing the live to the starter as an earth? It is quite large diameter compared to the rest of the loom. The starter itself is earthed because it is bolted to the engine case.
75 z1b, 77 z650 b1, 77 z650 b1 period custom, 77 z1000 a1, 82 z1100 elr, 89 zxr750h1

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Charging woes :( 16 Mar 2019 06:12 #800412

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Ahhh you know what i bet its the starter live wire. My apologies

Sorry for the confusion
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Charging woes :( 18 Mar 2019 07:18 #800559

  • Trackerkz650sr
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Does anyone have the measurements ill need ? Pretty please. I dont have a manual
And need to test my stator and or regulator

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Charging woes :( 18 Mar 2019 07:50 #800567

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Trackerkz650sr wrote: Does anyone have the measurements ill need ? Pretty please. I dont have a manual
And need to test my stator and or regulator


If you plan to maintain your bike properly you really need the Kawasaki Service Manual that covers your model. Take a look at the back cover of the manual in the listing below. It shows that the manual includes the 1978 KZ650-D1. Ed

1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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Charging woes :( 18 Mar 2019 11:34 #800583

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I totally understand the need for a manual. No need to keep beating a dead horse
I was asking someone to kindly show me the CORRECT chart out of theyre manual

I beleive the problem is fixed however i just got time to mess with it

The black wire going to and from the reg was not grounded

Now im charging

My last question is
At about 1/4 throttle ( i have no tach)
My voltage is about 15.3

With my battery resting at a low 12.1x volts
Is this acceptable? Or is that overcharging

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Charging woes :( 18 Mar 2019 13:39 #800584

  • gordone
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You should not go over 13.8 volts in charge voltage.
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Charging woes :( 19 Mar 2019 09:28 #800635

  • 650ed
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gordone wrote: You should not go over 13.8 volts in charge voltage.


TOTALLY NOT TRUE!!!

Please do everyone a favor and take a look at the Kawasaki Service Manual before giving advice. Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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Charging woes :( 19 Mar 2019 09:46 #800637

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650ed wrote:

gordone wrote: You should not go over 13.8 volts in charge voltage.


TOTALLY NOT TRUE!!! Please do everyone a big favor and take a look at the Kawasaki Service Manual before giving bogus advice based on who knows what! Ed


On a 12v battery I have learn 13.8v is maximum constant voltage for maximise life of a battery. You can go higher for shorter periode, but as a constant charge voltage (battery full charged) 13.8v is max.

What have I learn wrong?

1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
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Last edit: by gordone.

Charging woes :( 19 Mar 2019 09:53 #800639

  • 650ed
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Still wrong. Please take a look at the Kawasaki Service Manual. Below are examples from the 1977 KZ650 Kawasaki Service Manual and the 1981 KZ650 Kawasaki Service Manual. Those two models used different charging systems, so the specs are slightly different, but please notice that in both cases the correct voltage is higher than what you specified. I am quite confident that the folks at Kawasaki who engineered these machines had a thorough understanding of charging systems and batteries. Ed



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Charging woes :( 19 Mar 2019 10:01 #800640

  • gordone
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I don’t see why theory of charing a battery has nothing todo with a brand as Kawasaki. Battery technology is general.

I’m here for learning, why has Kawasaki engineers designed the regulator to give 14,5 /6 = 2,41v per cell or 15/6 = 2,5v per cell?

These is higher then general battery charing theory saying?
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Charging woes :( 19 Mar 2019 10:20 #800641

  • 650ed
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I cannot answer your question, but I suspect the engineers at Kawasaki Heavy Industries; the makers of motorcycles, super trains, ships, aerospace and defense equipment, industrial robots, gas turbines, etc. know quite a bit about charging systems. Consequently, rather than trying to invent my own specifications I follow their advice regarding the motorcycles they engineered. Ed
1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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