Huge points gap necessary for proper dwell angle

aenikolopov wrote:

bountyhunter wrote: That can indicate a problem with the mechanical advancer. As they wear, they allow the advance to kick in too early which throws the timing off.

You know, that's very interesting to hear. For my last set of points, I also had to have the points plate turned all the way, but I didn't think anything of it because I hadn't installed the points and didn't know how old they were (also, it was my first time dealing w/ points, or a motorcycle altogether).
How can I go about figuring out whether this is the problem? I guess if I get a fresh set of points and this is the case, then it must necessarily be the advancer? I'm trying to figure out what the problem what the advancer could be - is it wear of the metal on the advancer cam, the one that pushes the points open? Would it be some loosening of how the cam connects to the advancer body/crankshaft?

The springs should hold the "wings" in at idle. If there's a problem, your idle set point (as checked by timing light) will require twisting the plate a bunch because there is 5 or 10 degrees of advance happening that should not and you have to compensate by moving the plate.. Then when you check the high RPM advance point, it won't advance enough. basically, the range of advance from idle to full RPM reduces which means you can't get both timing points set correctly.

You should set the point gap to spec, then check idle timing and set. Then check high RPM advance point. If you can't get both set right, it's an advancer problem.

missionkz wrote: Why are so many people having problems setting the points and the timing on these? It's so stupid simple on mine....each set of points has an individual mounting to set gap and they can individually be retarded or advanced for "timing" after the gap is set.
From that point, the entire backng plate can be moved to advance or retard the two sets of points as a pair.
And when done correctly, the mounting screws and their respective slots are no where near the ends of their travel.
??? Am I missing something?
It's clear in the FSM.

Hah, I'm not sure how to respond to this. I did what you do, it worked, in the sense that my bike ran. I tried to be more accurate and check the dwell angle directly, and discovered that either 1) I am reading my dwell angle meter wrong 2) my dwell angle meter is broken, or 3) there is some sort of wear issue with either my points or the advance mechanism. Other than that, I agree, the procedure is quite simple.

bountyhunter wrote:

aenikolopov wrote:

bountyhunter wrote: That can indicate a problem with the mechanical advancer. As they wear, they allow the advance to kick in too early which throws the timing off.

You know, that's very interesting to hear. For my last set of points, I also had to have the points plate turned all the way, but I didn't think anything of it because I hadn't installed the points and didn't know how old they were (also, it was my first time dealing w/ points, or a motorcycle altogether).
How can I go about figuring out whether this is the problem? I guess if I get a fresh set of points and this is the case, then it must necessarily be the advancer? I'm trying to figure out what the problem what the advancer could be - is it wear of the metal on the advancer cam, the one that pushes the points open? Would it be some loosening of how the cam connects to the advancer body/crankshaft?

The springs should hold the "wings" in at idle. If there's a problem, your idle set point (as checked by timing light) will require twisting the plate a bunch because there is 5 or 10 degrees of advance happening that should not and you have to compensate by moving the plate.. Then when you check the high RPM advance point, it won't advance enough. basically, the range of advance from idle to full RPM reduces which means you can't get both timing points set correctly.

You should set the point gap to spec, then check idle timing and set. Then check high RPM advance point. If you can't get both set right, it's an advancer problem.

Thanks, this whole time I haven't actually checked anything other than idle timing. I do have a timing light, it's just a matter of using it. Thanks for your explanation, that makes perfect sense.

Also, the advancer arms have two little rubber stops on them. They often like to fall off. This will make the idle position too retarded by a few degrees (or if timed correctly at idle, it will be too advanced at higher RPM). Missing stops result in an increase of the total change in advance from idle to high speed. So you will want to make sure the rubber stops are in tact.

That's the usual outcome.
Steve

loudhvx wrote: Also, the advancer arms have two little rubber stops on them. They often like to fall off. This will make the idle position too retarded by a few degrees (or if timed correctly at idle, it will be too advanced at higher RPM). Missing stops result in an increase of the total change in advance from idle to high speed. So you will want to make sure the rubber stops are in tact.

Good Fortune!

thanks all. Patton, that's helpful. Will open it up and take a look soon.