Li-ion Battery

These things will start hi compression Harleys so I'm pretty sure it will start your bike.

40 degrees huh? I wouldn't ride in that when I was 25 if I could avoid it. Nowadays I'll find something else to do (like take a nap) till it warms up to 65 or so.

Bowman wrote: 40 degrees huh? I wouldn't ride in that when I was 25 if I could avoid it. Nowadays I'll find something else to do (like take a nap) till it warms up to 65 or so.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: me too !!

I'll do some more research especially about the charging issues. From what I've read so far I need a modern solid state combo regulator/rectifier to make it work. I'll let you know next spring if I cause a fire and/or explosion directly beneath my crotch when I try it out.

I am currently using a SSB Lithium battery:

www.ssbpowersport.com.au/Products/Produc...pid/595/Default.aspx

They advertise that they can be charged with a normal charger - I believe they do have some electronics built in to control it. I have had mine for about 6 months with no issues, my brother has been using one in his bike for about two years. Mine is about 600 grams and 220CCA - it can start a car (I've tried).

There are a few minor differences. A Lead-acid battery will crank best from cold - a lithium works best once 'warmed up'. I've never had any issue, but I have heard of people switching on their lights while they gear up before starting the bike.

Bowman wrote: Thanks guys, I'll definately spring for the charger if I go Li-ion. I also hear that Li-ion batteries don't like cold weather but neither do I so I'm safe there.

What I really want to know is if the 8 cell battery has enough grunt to start the bike, goodness knows my 61 year old arthritic right leg doesn't.

Depends. Based on what I read: in cold weather, sometimes an Li will not turn the starter well at initial push but as it cranks, the battery heats up inside (which lowers the internal resistance) and it cranks better.

I used to be the battery management guru and I have done some work with Li's. They are happiest at a temp range of about 50F to 90F.

jackleberry wrote: As far as I can tell, these batteries are a bit of a scam. I've built and flown electric RC aircraft using LiPo and Life batteries. It takes great care in charging and discharging not to destroy them (and potentially igniting an inferno)..

AFAIK, only the Li Poly batteries like to burst into flames. The Li Iron Phosphate (which is what is used for car/MC batteries) are very robust and don't catch fire like Li Poly.

As far as Li being a scam: IMHO, the only potential problem is whether or not the charging system is precise enough to charge them to the correct voltage. As the previous above text warned, constant overcharging leads to rapid death. I believe that's why some bike owners love them and some have several die rapidly.

bountyhunter wrote:

jackleberry wrote: As far as I can tell, these batteries are a bit of a scam. I've built and flown electric RC aircraft using LiPo and Life batteries. It takes great care in charging and discharging not to destroy them (and potentially igniting an inferno)..

AFAIK, only the Li Poly batteries like to burst into flames. The Li Iron Phosphate (which is what is used for car/MC batteries) are very robust and don't catch fire like Li Poly.

As far as Li being a scam: IMHO, the only potential problem is whether or not the charging system is precise enough to charge them to the correct voltage. As the previous above text warned, constant overcharging leads to rapid death. I believe that's why some bike owners love them and some have several die rapidly.

I just mean a scam as far as being a drop in replacement for a lead-acid battery in motorcycles. With the proper charging circuitry (which doesn't appear to exist on the market yet), I'm sure it could work OK, but with the already mentioned caveats of not working well in cold weather and potentially burning down your bike. Really doesn't seem worth it, and if you wanted to go the dumb pack route, you could get some LiPo or LiFe batteries of the same specs for MUCH cheaper than Shorai is selling them. I'm talking a mere $30 - $40 from HobbyKing.

jackleberry wrote:

bountyhunter wrote:

jackleberry wrote: As far as I can tell, these batteries are a bit of a scam. I've built and flown electric RC aircraft using LiPo and Life batteries. It takes great care in charging and discharging not to destroy them (and potentially igniting an inferno)..

AFAIK, only the Li Poly batteries like to burst into flames. The Li Iron Phosphate (which is what is used for car/MC batteries) are very robust and don't catch fire like Li Poly.

As far as Li being a scam: IMHO, the only potential problem is whether or not the charging system is precise enough to charge them to the correct voltage. As the previous above text warned, constant overcharging leads to rapid death. I believe that's why some bike owners love them and some have several die rapidly.

I just mean a scam as far as being a drop in replacement for a lead-acid battery in motorcycles. With the proper charging circuitry (which doesn't appear to exist on the market yet), I'm sure it could work OK, but with the already mentioned caveats of not working well in cold weather and potentially burning down your bike. Really doesn't seem worth it, and if you wanted to go the dumb pack route, you could get some LiPo or LiFe batteries of the same specs for MUCH cheaper than Shorai is selling them. I'm talking a mere $30 - $40 from HobbyKing.

My brother has used one for two years, and me for 6 months without any of the issues you've mentioned. I've not noticed any issue with cold starts however lithium batteries have a huge starting current compared to lead-acid. I've started on some below-freezing mornings without issue.

The issue with using RC batteries is what you have pointed out - charging. You can get cigarette lighter LiPo chargers, so it's possible. But then you need to worry about heat, cold, water and a protective casing in case of an accident. The off-the-shelf motorbike LiPo batteries provide this. I don't know about the Shorai batteries, but the SSB ones have worked great for me, and they're readily available here in Australia.

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Bowman wrote: I'll do some more research especially about the charging issues. From what I've read so far I need a modern solid state combo regulator/rectifier to make it work. I'll let you know next spring if I cause a fire and/or explosion directly beneath my crotch when I try it out.

upgrade your R/R to a Mosfet unit and you won't have any issues with overcharging the battery and killing it
This is what I have with a Ballistic battery

Battery Stuff put the Shorai Li Ion battery thru some tests, & here is what they found, or should I say, couldn't find anything negative about it
Pete
www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&...U-QHO7eUCaR_LCrqIvhQ

Been using one for about 7 years now on my ELR, bought the battery in 2008. It has never been on a charger and I do not do anything to it during the winter just ignore it. Every spring it fires the bike up like new. Expensive but with going on 7 years of use I am very happy with it.
It was not a drop in replacement but wasn't to hard to get it to work. When I need a new one I will buy another.