Not another charging issue thread.....

I hate to open up another thread on charging issues, but I have done lots of reading through old threads, and some testing, but am very unfamiliar with electronics...

Here is what I've got so far:
Last year the bike charged fine, with no issues. Moved across the country. Motorcycle spent a week in a moving truck. Arrived here, and I did some engine work, but touched no wiring. Put the bike back together, and am now having charging issues.

It appears the previous owner changed out the old regulator and rectifier for a reg/rec combo (7 wires) See picture.
green - ground
Red - battery
blue - relay
orange - stator
3 yellow - stator

I attempted to test resistance between the yellow wires from the stator but my voltmeter gives no reading at Rx1 Rx10 and Rx100..... The needle doesnt even move. I am not sure if I have done something wrong here or what. I have no experience testing electronics.

Also, the red wire that goes to the battery looks as though it has shorted out in the past (see picture). I am not sure if this means that something in the rec is fried or what. Also, I am not sure if this was like that before the bike stopped charging.

Anyways, I just have a hard time believing that this seemingly new Reg/rec would be toast. I have also been reading that the stators on the 77's are pretty much bullet-proof. I am aiming towards this burnt connection. Is there any way to test this?

Sorry for the extremely long winded question, but that you very much for the help.

Your picture didn't post. Any burned wiring will need replacing. Now where you show a connection to a relay, that is not Factory, but I assume is operating a switched circuit to the positive battery terminal. As it would be the charging voltage Sense wire. The three yellows from the stator would be better tested for AC volts, instead of Ohm's. Use your meter, and test each combo of the three yellow wires, with them unplugged from the R/R. Each pair should make about 56 ACV. Not sure about the Orange wire you say goes to Stator also. Does that unit have a brand and part # on it? If so post it.

How do you know that the previous owner got a combo reg/rec that will even work with the charging system on the bike? If he screwed that up it won't work no matter what. If it was mine I would start by getting the correct separate regulator and rectifier and making sure the wiring all matched the KZ650-C1 wiring diagram. These folks sell them and they are high quality pieces.

www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/Products.html

If you do that and still have charging problems at least you will be able to use the instructions in the Kawasaki Service Manual to troubleshoot.

Regarding "reading that the stators on the 77's are pretty much bullet-proof" - well whoever wrote what you read didn't really know what they were talking about. The KZ650-C1 and B-1 do not even have stators! They use an extremely dependable field coil/rotor/yoke arrangement. Stators came into use on the KZ650 beginning in 1978 with the B2/C2/D1 models. Just to make sure the previous owner didn't change the dynamo - the cover on yours should have the 3 allen bolts circled in the pic below. If it doesn't have these it is not a KZ650-C1 dynamo. Ed

I will have to try the pictures again tonight, when I get home from work.

Motorhead - Thanks, I will try to test for AC volts. Do I do this with the bike off or on?
-I will also swap out the burnt wire.

ED - I am very unfamiliar with the charging system components and names. The bike has the three allen bolts, and so it is a field coil arrangement.

As for the previous owner. I should note that I have had this bike for 3 years, and never had a charging problem. Also, The bike has a new battery.

They all have stators.

The difference is that the 77 C1 and B1 have field coils, but later 650's do not.

The stator is where the AC voltage/current is generated.

The field coil gets DC voltage/current to create magnetism.

murr50 wrote: ...It appears the previous owner changed out the old regulator and rectifier for a reg/rec combo (7 wires) See picture.
green - ground
Red - battery
blue - relay
orange - stator
3 yellow - stator

The stator has three wires. They will all three be yellow or maybe white.

The orange wire probably goes to the field coil, not the stator. On the KZ650 and earlier 400's, the wire to the field coil provides positive DC voltage to create the magnetic field. The other end of the field coil is grounded (the 750 twins are different). So there should be two wires to the field coil. Normally, one is green, and the other is black or possibly sometimes white. Green would be the DC power to the field coil. Black (or maybe white) will go to ground. You should confirm all of this.

You will have to clarify what you mean by "relay" for the blue wire. There should be no relay.
The blue wire may be a switched DC source that the regulator ues to determine how to control the field coil. But blue is a strange color choice for that.

murr50 wrote: Also, the red wire that goes to the battery looks as though it has shorted out in the past (see picture). I am not sure if this means that something in the rec is fried or what. Also, I am not sure if this was like that before the bike stopped charging.

Anyways, I just have a hard time believing that this seemingly new Reg/rec would be toast. I have also been reading that the stators on the 77's are pretty much bullet-proof. I am aiming towards this burnt connection. Is there any way to test this?

The red wire will fry if one of the diodes in the rec is shorted. Does your meter have a diode checker? That's where I would start. You can test for a shorted diode on the reg/rec, much the same way the manual describes for the rectifier.

murr50 wrote: I attempted to test resistance between the yellow wires from the stator but my voltmeter gives no reading at Rx1 Rx10 and Rx100..... The needle doesnt even move. I am not sure if I have done something wrong here or what. I have no experience testing electronics.

That is a problem. The needle should show up as a near short for each pair combination of yellow wires.

Does the needle move is you touch the two probes together?

You may have to take the alternator cover off to see if the wires are still intact inside.

loudhvx wrote: They all have stators.

The difference is that the 77 C1 and B1 have field coils, but later 650's do not.

The stator is where the AC voltage/current is generated.

The field coil gets DC voltage/current to create magnetism.

Not so (at least not as described in the nomenclature used in Kawasaki parts diagrams). They have a stator or a field coil - never both. Notice in the diagram the part labeled "22" is the field coil for the '77 KZ650 (B1 & C1) models. The part labeled "27" is the stator for the later models. The stator did not come in the '77 KZ650 models. If a KZ650 B1 or C1 owner buys a stator he will not be able to install it without completely changing the charging system. Ed

Here's the wiring diagram for the 1977 KZ650-C1. Notice there are a total of 4 wires coming from the generator. 3 are YELLOW; 1 is GREEN. In the stock configuration, the 3 yellow wires connect to the rectifier; the green wire connects to the regulator. If you have ORANGE, WHITE, BLACK, BLUE, RED, or any other colors (other than yellow & green) coming from the generator someone has hosed it up. That's why in my earlier post I suggested you try to put it back to the stock setup. Once someone has fiddled around with the charging system, and of course left zero documentation as to what they did, it can be very difficult to sort out problems. Ed

diagrams.kz650.info/wiring/images/KZ650-C1.jpg

Ok, I changed the battery in my voltmeter. I get a reading of approximately .8ohms between all three yellow wires. So it seems that checks out.

I have torn apart most of the wires and the miles of electrical tape that holds them all together.... Except the orange one. I am assuming from what loud has said, it probably goes to the field coil (heading in that direction).

As for this blue wire to the RELAY... It connects directly to the turn signal relay. According to the C1 wiring diagram this makes sense (should be a brown wire).

Ed - I have three yellow and one green from the generator. This I have made sure of...

I have a terrible voltmeter, so I cannot check Diodes. Tomorrow I will pick up a new meter.

Also Ed, if this turns out to be a problem with the reg/rec, I will most definitely be going back to the stock setup.

Last Thing - The red wire from the Reg/rec is 12 gauge. The PO has it spliced right into a 16 ga. wire that goes to the battery... I am assuming this could have caused issues?


Thanks very much guys, very informative.

Anytime, wire is reduced in size(like splicing 12 down to 16 gauge), you ask for problems, as 16 gauge(especially some of the crappy insulated wires available) will not handle the current(AMPS) of 12 gauge wire. I see electrical overloads, and possible fires happening. If anything, go up in conductor size, never smaller.

To say that it is not called a stator is misleading and will only confuse anyone who is trying to understand charging systems.

It is possible to describe an object by more than one term, and some terms will be far more precise than others. Kawasaki should not be the authority on naming since they are very inconsistent.

Kawasaki can call it a doodad, or a thingamabob, or any other incredibly vague term, but that does not change the fact that it IS a stator and should be called such so everyone better understands what is being talked about. Heck, whoever put that fiche together can't even figure out that the bike is a KZ650, not a KZ660.

If anyone started a thread by saying they suspected their, as Kawasaki calls it, "yoke assembly" was going bad, hardly anyone would know that they meant their charging system wasn't working, especially since "yoke assembly" can refer to just about anything that holds things together. (I don't even see how "yoke assy" can be applied to the part in question.)

And, even Kawasaki refers to that same part, on a different bike, as a "stator", and shows it along with a field coil.




The proper term, (among others), is "stator". In KZ charging systems, the stator is the stationary part that converts a rotating magnetic field into an alternating current. That magnetic field can be from a set of rotating permanent magnets, or from a stationary field coil with a rotating field inverter. The stator can look like the rim of a wheel or the spokes of a wheel, but still performs the same task.