Serious problem with points

:S
My Kz650B of 79 was giving failures from 5000 rpm. I have supposed that it would be a problem of points. I have replaced them for the originals(21008-028/21008-027). For the intervention I have removed the backplate, without dismounting the advance unit and after cleaning and lubricate has mounted and position new points. Proved the motorcycle does not start. Some suggestion?

Thank you very much.

Regards from Spain (and excuse my english)

Sven,
setting points can be a little bit complicated and tedious. There are both gap and timing concerns to be considered when replacing them. Has the gap been set correctly? Has the correct timing been restored? Did you pinch a wire under the cover?

Your English is fine; much better than many folks that live here.

Make sure all the little insulators on the points where the wires attach are in the correct positions and make sure the connectors on the wires that attach to the points are not touching the engine case. You can test this by using an ohm meter to test for continuity between the points springs and the engine case. There should be no continuity between them when the points are in the open position.

The manual has several pages of instructions, pictures, etc. on how to set the timing using the static method plus timing light, plus dwell meter. I can give you a fairly easy way that will get you in a pretty close ballpark without a timing light or dwell meter, but you will need a 0.35 mm feeler gauge and a multi-meter or other device to test continuity. To be very precise, the timing light and dwell meter will be needed.

Remove the points cover on the right side of engine. Under it you will see 2 sets of points. The set on the left fires cylinders 1 & 4; the set on the right fires 2 & 3. When replacing points observe carefully how the little bits and pieces are arranged where the wires attach. Some of those pieces are actually insulators and if you leave any of them out or put them back in the wrong place the points will be grounded and won't work. Take a very close look at the contact surfaces of the points. If they are pitted you really should replace them. You can sand down pitted points, but they will quickly pit again. Replace one set of points at a time so you can look at the other set in case you get the little bits confused.

Use a 17 mm wrench to turn the nut NEAR the end of the crankshaft clockwise while looking in the hole above that nut. (Do NOT use a wrench on the smaller bolt on the very end of the crankshaft to turn the engine.) Inside that hole you will see a vertical pointer cast into the casing. As you turn the 17 mm nut you will see a 1 & 4 and F and T roll by and then you'll see a 2 & 3 and F and T roll by. Each F and T has a line next to it.

Here's the method I use for static timing. I turn OFF the ignition. I disconnect the green wire near one coil and the black wire near the other coil. (This is not in the book, but it makes checking continuity much easier for me.) After installing the new points or cleaning up the old ones, turn the 17 mm nut while watching the points. When points set 1&4 are at their widest gap adjust them (by loosening the 2 screws that hold the points to the backplate) so the gap equals 0.35 mm. Turn the 17 mm nut clockwise through a full revolution again and double check this gap. Then repeat this for points set 3&4. Now set your meter to test continuity and clip one wire to the leaf spring on points set 1&4 and clip the other wire to ground. Turn the 17 mm nut clockwise until the 1&4 "F" mark aligns with the pointer mentioned above. You want the continuity across point set 1&4 to just break when the F mark aligns with the pointer. The idea is that when the continuity just fails is when the points will fire their respective coil and cylinders. In order to adjust the point at which continuity fails you loosen the 3 screws that hold the backplate to the engine and slightly turn the backplate until the meter shows a break in continuity. Once you have the 1&4 set timed properly you can check the 2&3 set to make sure they break when the 2&3 F mark aligns with the pointer (they should or something is not right). Don't forget to plug in the green and black coil wires when you are done, and put a little grease on the rubbing block felt. Assuming you are using new points of the correct type this should enable you to get the timing very close. Trying this with old points may give poor results, especially if the points are pitted and/or the rubbing blocks are worn.

After you have set the gap (which in effect sets the dwell) and the timing using the method above you can use a dwell meter and timing light to fine tune dwell and timing. If you have followed the above procedure carefully, very little if any fine tuning will be needed.
Sorry this is so long. It's not as difficult as it sounds. Ed

Thank you very much for the response, Ed. I will revise my installation. But I believe that it is something rare. With the old points, it was starting well and in falls perfect, but from 5000 rpm was giving failure. With new points, nothing of nothing, I have just understood that it happens. We will continue to trying it and will comment on the results.

Regards!!

Sven1962 wrote: ... With new points, nothing of nothing....

Remember to set gaps first, before adjusting timing.

Good Fortune!

Check very carefully to ensure insulators on the points are installed correctly. If they are not and the points are grounded you will get no spark. Ed

Well ..... thank you very much to all for the answers, specially to 650Ed and Patton. Finally I have returned to verify and re-do the installation. And have I detected a problem (I am a stupid?). When he was verifying with estrob the lamp the marks were going out 1-4, puncturing the cable of candlestick 2 (for example) ....???????????? ...... Returned to dismount and the problem was in the incorrect assembly of the only piece that does not come reflected in the manual that I used (KZ650 Manual Motorcycle Shop, First Issue, Apr. 20 1976); consulting another manual (1981) I found the problem, the rotor was bad mounted (it marks the opposite side). Now already this every soluccionado and it starts perfectly. But I continue having a problem from 5000 rpm, surely it is of carburación....

You just need to grease the advancer.

Sven1962 wrote: ...

Attachment Dibujo.JPG not found

The pictured item is the rotor from Kawasaki's electronic ignition (not the earlier points ignition).

Both ignitions have a manual advancer with weight arms that swing out to advance the timing as rpm increases.

The pivot points require lubrication,
Sometimes the advancer requires both cleaning and lubing.
The advancer may get so rusty and corroded that it freezes in position, or fails to immediately react by moving back and forth as rpm is varied.




Regardless of the type of ignition (points or electronic), the advancer is NOT supposed to look rusty and cruddy like this:


The advancer is located behind the ignition's large circular mounting plate.




Good Fortune!

Does your bike have the original air box and air filter or does it have individual "pod" filters on the carbs? Ed

Thanks to all. This one is a great forum and very actively. Congratulations. The photo that I put belongs to a more modern model, since he was not having other one, really the piece is not exactly equal. The problem of the take-off is solved. This one quite clean, lubricated and fitted. Which makes me suppose that it is a problem of regulation of carburación. The carburetors are clean, with new O-rings and gaskets; I believe that it is a problem of regulation of mixture and flow.

Regards!!