The bike won't start

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03 Oct 2012 10:23 #552195 by marcus91
Replied by marcus91 on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
Alright. So I checked the main jets, and they were 102,5. Pretty standard I think. :)

Checked the valves also:

Inlet:
1: 0.18mm
2: 0.15mm
3. 0.18mm
4. 0.18mm

Exhaust:
1: 0.18mm
2: 0.18mm
3: 0.18mm
4: 0.18mm

How does this look?

1981 Kawasaki Z650SR

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03 Oct 2012 10:25 - 03 Oct 2012 10:26 #552196 by Motor Head
Replied by Motor Head on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
I would also verify the camshaft timing while there, quick and easy.

"Alright. So I checked the main jets, and they were 102,5. Pretty standard I think.

Checked the valves also:

Inlet:
1: 0.18mm
2: 0.15mm
3. 0.18mm
4. 0.18mm

Exhaust:
1: 0.18mm
2: 0.18mm
3: 0.18mm
4: 0.18mm

How does this look?"

All within spec.

1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Last edit: 03 Oct 2012 10:26 by Motor Head.

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03 Oct 2012 10:26 #552197 by marcus91
Replied by marcus91 on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
Im really sorry for asking a lot of stupid questions, but how do you check camshaft timing? :)

1981 Kawasaki Z650SR

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03 Oct 2012 10:29 #552199 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
There's an excellent thread here on KZr contributed by RonKZ650 as to valve adjustments on a KZ650, which thread includes the following text:

...The general procedure accepted and pretty much outlined in the manuals involves turning the engine over to a specific point of rotation, then digging into your stash of feelers and measure the exact clearance between each valve bucket and cam lobe at the correct point of rotation. Then remove the cams, swap shims, reinstalll the cams, retime the cams. I learned long, long ago there's an easier way. Takes maybe 5 minutes at most to check all 8 valves.
Start out by getting your feelers, you need a .05mm, .10mm, .15mm and a .20mm. This is all you need for the most part, don't bother checking with more precision than that because it doesn't matter as shims are only available in .05mm increments.
Generally shoot for between .10-.15mm clearance cold. Turn the engine over slowly clockwise with your 17mm socket on the right end of the crank. Do this while constantly trying to insert a .10mm feeler between a bucket and cam lobe. If at any point of rotation a .10mm fits, try a .15mm. If not try a .05mm. This can be done quickly when you get the feel for it. Once you figure the largest feeler in .05mm increment that inserts call that your clearance, so if a .10mm fits and a .15mm doesn't, call .10mm your clearance. Do this for all 8 valves then figure what you've got to change. For example say the 8 valves measured .10, .05, 10, .15 on one cam, you'd see 2 are right where you want them, and one needs a one size larger shim, one needs a one size smaller to bring them all to .10mm. So then you remove your upper camchain idler, unbolt the cam, remove the caps, then carefully keep all chain slack between the cams and the chain tight going down in the engine and carefully move the cam towards the center of the engine, remove one of the valve buckets needing adjustment, retrieve the shim, note the size and obtain your suitable replacement, reinstall, carefully lift the cam back in position keeping chain tight going down in the engine, torque down the camcaps to 7 ft/lb or so and you're done with that cam. Recheck clearances and move to the other cam. One cam at a time, do the way I say and timing will not be fouled up.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
The following user(s) said Thank You: kz1000_ltd

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03 Oct 2012 10:31 - 03 Oct 2012 10:33 #552201 by Motor Head
Replied by Motor Head on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
Do you have the 650 service manual? It will have the procedure.
Basically, you turn the crankshaft with the 17mm nut on the right end of the crankshaft, under the ignition cover. Turn it to 1-4 "T" mark. Then look at the front edge of the EX cam from the right side of the bike. It should have a Line, EX on it, it should line up with the valve cover gasket surface. Then there is a Pin count for checking the IN cam. That changes from each model, and I don't have that # for the 650. So either your Service Manual, or another member can post the pin count back to the IN cam line?
Make sure you have the cross wedge out of the Cam Chain Tensioner before re-installing the valve cover. Its under the carb rack, 17mm nut on the cap, spring and wedge under it.

1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...
Last edit: 03 Oct 2012 10:33 by Motor Head.

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03 Oct 2012 10:32 - 03 Oct 2012 10:41 #552202 by marcus91
Replied by marcus91 on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
Thanks. :)

Edit: Didnt see your post regarding my values before now. :)

1981 Kawasaki Z650SR
Last edit: 03 Oct 2012 10:41 by marcus91.

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03 Oct 2012 10:45 #552204 by 650ed
Replied by 650ed on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
No eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationNo eBay APP ID and/or Cert ID defined in Kunena configurationYou really need to buy a Kawasaki Service Manual. No KZ owner should be without one, otherwise you will not be able to maintain your bike properly. Here are a couple:



1977 KZ650-C1 Original Owner - Stock (with additional invisible FIAMM horn)

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03 Oct 2012 10:46 - 03 Oct 2012 10:47 #552205 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?

marcus91 wrote: Thanks. :)

So my values seems off then? Should I get smaller shims?


A smaller shim increases clearance.

If the clearances were only measured without loosening the camshafts and without disturbing the cam chain's position on the cam sprocket, the cam timing would not be affected.

If desired, correctness of the cam timing may be verified without loosening the camshafts and without disturbing the cam chain's position on the cam sprocket.

Absent some reason to suspect incorrect cam timing, the cam timing is probably okay. But it won't hurt to check.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Last edit: 03 Oct 2012 10:47 by Patton.

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03 Oct 2012 11:25 #552210 by marcus91
Replied by marcus91 on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
Im going to buy the book asap! I really need it! :)

Thanks for the reply Patton, will check it. ;)

By the way, I now know that the bike does not run on all 4! Cylinder 2 and 3 are not working. They are getting spark though. What else can it be?

1981 Kawasaki Z650SR

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04 Oct 2012 09:52 #552385 by marcus91
Replied by marcus91 on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
Alright. So today I tried to mount the pod-filters the bike came with back on again. Now suddenly the damn thing won't start... Just backfires LOUD with flames though exhaust and carburetor. Sounds like it is about to fire up all the time, but it just won't get there 100%. The bike does not get any better it seems with starting-fluid either. So what does this tell me? Ignition problem? How do I adjust the ignition advance timing (electronic ignition on this bike)?

1981 Kawasaki Z650SR

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04 Oct 2012 10:15 #552396 by Motor Head
Replied by Motor Head on topic Where does this electrical plate sit?
The electronic ignition does not have an adjustment, unless you make a modification. You can check it once running with a timing light. As it sits now, you can check that the ignition advancer is moving freely. Back under the cover on the right end of the crankshaft, there are two black electrical coils on a plate. These are the ignition pick up coils, and just inside that on the end of the crank is the Rotor. The Rotor has a mechanical spring loaded advance, so it rotates with engine RPM increasing the Advance. So it can be come sticky and get stuck in one position. You can grab it with your fingers and see if it moves freely, it should spring back when turned and then let go.
Now you say the 2 &3 cylinders don't run? Have you checked the compression? You say they have spark, so compression is next. this and the back firing is why I said to verify the Camshaft timing. To rule that out, as while the valve cover is of it only takes a minute.
Verify you have good compression on all 4.

1982 KZ1000LTD K2 Vance & Hines 4-1 ACCEL COILS Added Vetter fairing & Bags. FOX Racing rear Shocks, Braced Swing-arm, Fork Brace, Progressive Fork Springs RT Gold Emulators, APE Valve Springs, 1166 Big Bore kit, RS34's, GPZ cams.
1980 KZ550LTD C1 Stock SOLD Miss it
1979 MAZDA RX7 in the works, 13B...

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