Not charging enough. Battery slowly dying.

blogos:
Thanks to Loudhvx I have found the correct wiring Diagram, and while your output is a three phase, it is Not the Permanent Magnet type of the later systems. You Need a unit for the Excited Field Alternator system. So the later ones I was thinking from Kawasaki, 5 or 6 wire won't work.
So I don't think the first one I picked from Oregon-motorcycles is the right one' But this one I have posted now should be.
Z1 sells this one www.z1enterprises.com/Rectifier--Regulat...maha-XS650-3268.aspx
But I see they are out of stock.
Oregon Motorcycle has this one, VRREM7-KZ on there page, down about 1/2 way.
www.oregonmotorcycleparts.com/Reg_rec_units.html

thanks Loudhvx!

Hm I don't think I can swap out for the combo r/r from my 78 as I believe that year they went to a 1-phase alternator with a combo R/R? This is just from memory and I could be completely wrong. I can findn omr's thread. I'll keep looking

Here is the one I remember: www.kzrider.com/forum/advsearch?q=Combo+...ildforums=1&catids=4
And you are probably right, single phase on your other bike, then later they went 3 phase again. Maybe add to your wanted that you want a combo R/R for a 3 phase, but an Excited Field type of Alternator.

Cool thanks I'll add that. Thanks for all your help.

Just skimming this thread...

It appears you guys are using troubleshooting techniques for a permament-magnet alternator.

The 77 KZ650's use a 3-phase excited-field alternator. It's a 3-wire regulator that controls the power to the field coil.

loudhvx wrote: Just skimming this thread...

It appears you guys are using troubleshooting techniques for a permament-magnet alternator.

The 77 KZ650's use a 3-phase excited-field alternator. It's a 3-wire regulator that controls the power to the field coil.

Hey loudhvx, if it is wrong, can you set it right? i look at the Wiring diagram and I see the separate Reg and Rec, with the Reg being the one above in the diagram. Which matched what he posted for wire colors.
If it is a Excited Field, full fielding will show its output at Max rating. but still not test the Regulator.
Any help you can supply Bloglos he will be thankful for.

bloglos wrote: OK, we're getting there. Tested the rectifier at the white and was getting 20+v depending on throttle, so I'm guessing the rectifier is good?

Then I connected the multimeter to the posts on the battery and disconnected the brown wire from the regulator while the bike was running lookking for a jump in volts, there was absolutely no change or jump in volts at the battery. Isn't this a little odd? If the rectifier is working correctly and I unplug the brown from the regulator, then shouldn't the volts jump up whether the regulator was good or bad?

No I F'd up there thinking of the Later system. Loudhvx spotted it.
If you had that voltage coming out of the Rectifier, what did it measure at the far end of the white where it goes to the battery? Still low. What about with the jump wire adding the extra connection?
The system is putting out that higher voltage, on the white wire. But you are loosing it along the path back to the battery. So before buying any parts, do try to get a better connection on the output of the Rectifier to the Battery + .

Here are the pages from the FSM for the B1 on testing the charging system. Hope they help.

As long as he does indeed have the 77 charging system, the regulator is just your typical mechanical relay type common to the era. The regulator gets switched 12v on the brown wire (but this is not just a sense line here, here it is also the power for the field so significant current will flow). The regulator's ground wire is black. The regulator supplies varying voltage (and current) to the field coil via the green wire. The field coil's negative side is permanently grounded.

A full output test can be done by simply jumping the green wire to the brown wire at the regulator. If I recall correctly, the manual will describe this test as well. It may be in gd4now's posted instructions.

The is the way I would do it:
Run the bike and let it idle. Monitor the battery voltage continuously while jumping the green to brown wire at the reg. If it isn't above 15v, then rev the bike a little while monitoring the voltage. At some RPM, it should reach 15v, but don't let it go higher. Take note of the RPM where you get to 15v. Try it with the lights off if you can't get up to 15v.

If the voltage gets up to 15v easily, and it seems good at idle (like 12.5~13.0 or higher) then we know the rectifier and alternator are good, or at least for short durations they are good. That rules it out to be the regulator.

I would get the one at Oregonmotorcycleparts.com. Then after that, I'd mount a voltmeter to the battery semi-permanently so you can watch it while riding. If the voltage is up around 14, but slowly drops, it could be the stator goes bad when hot... or even the field coil for that matter. But other tests can be done to check those. (Current measuring tests.)

Thanks guys.
He already has a measurement of over 15 at the white output wire from the rectifier, so the regulator is applying voltage to the Field, and the Alternator is putting out. but he is loosing it at the battery terminals, still 13 or something. back to wiring, before buying any parts. Seems like the wiring has been the issue for several members no matter which system.

bloglos wrote: OK, we're getting there. Tested the rectifier at the white and was getting 20+v depending on throttle, so I'm guessing the rectifier is good?

Then I connected the multimeter to the posts on the battery and disconnected the brown wire from the regulator while the bike was running lookking for a jump in volts, there was absolutely no change or jump in volts at the battery. Isn't this a little odd? If the rectifier is working correctly and I unplug the brown from the regulator, then shouldn't the volts jump up whether the regulator was good or bad?

I may have missed another post somewhere, but here he says he measured at the battery with the brown wire disconnected at the regulator, so the alternator would have shut down at that point.

If not already, he may have to redo this test with jumping green to brown on the reg.

"OK, we're getting there. Tested the rectifier at the white and was getting 20+v depending on throttle, so I'm guessing the rectifier is good?"
Here he had tested right at the harness close to where it comes out of the rectifier. But at Batt + still down, like 13v.