shorai lithium batteries

SHORAI HAS A PROBLEM:

The site I went to to see about prices has a disclaimer about Shorai redesigning the batteries and there will be a delay. You might want to wait a while since this clearly means the current batteries have a problem they found in the field. They are backlogged with orders (money is on the table) and they were forced to redesign so it must be significant.

tk11b40 had a Shorai battery for a very short period of time. Ask him how that worked out. Here's the link to that page in his build: kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/274097-197...d?limit=20&start=520

Now he identified that his regulator had gone bad and was sending unregulated charge to his battery. It seems to dovetail nicely with what bountyhunter is saying about these batteries being sensitive to charging parameters.

bountyhunter wrote: SHORAI HAS A PROBLEM:

The site I went to to see about prices has a disclaimer about Shorai redesigning the batteries and there will be a delay. You might want to wait a while since this clearly means the current batteries have a problem they found in the field. They are backlogged with orders (money is on the table) and they were forced to redesign so it must be significant.

my buddy has been using shorai on a 147 s&s 13.5:1 for three years with no problems and he rides constantly.


heres something from shorai's website....

"Q. What makes Shorai LFX different from other batteries?A.Shorai LFX batteries contain Shorai-proprietary eXtreme-Rate Lithium Iron prismatic cells (chemistry LiFePO4). Shorai LFX contain no poisonous lead, no dangerous acid, and do not create explosive gasses during charge, as traditional Lead-Acid batteries do. Compared to lead-acid, Shorai LFX lithium are also extremely light, have much lower self-discharge rate, do not sulfate (i.e. do not degrade while sitting unattended), and are environmentally friendly.


While there are other companies now offering Lithium-Iron based powersports batteries, all except Shorai use cylindrical cells originally made for power tool applications. Such cells are inferior to Shorai Prismatic LFX, for several reasons.

First, the cylindrical cells come only in one size, so that the possible shapes and sizes of the starter batteries they make are very limited. As such, battery fit into many vehicles may be poor, or impossible as they are too wide, or too tall. LFX prismatic cells, on the other hand, are rectangular packages which we can freely design and size according to the size requirements of the battery case. As such, Shorai LFX offer perfect drop-in fit in many vehicles and - if the LFX is slightly smaller in one dimension - high-density, adhesive-backed foam shims are included in the package. These can be applied to the battery box in a few minutes, to insure a perfect “as original” fit. No saws, cutting torches, or duct tape required!

Second is the pedigree. While power-tool cells may crank a vehicle successfully, they were not originally intended for the high current discharges in starter systems. As a result, cranking performance suffers compared to Shorai LFX, and the batteries will wear out more per every start. By contrast, Shorai LFX are the result of years of our own research and development, and are designed and produced in our own tightly controlled factory. Shorai LFX have been used in some of the most extreme high-current projects in the world, including autonomous aircraft, boats, and submarines, electromagnetic rail gun research, and more. In short, LFX have been designed from the “ground up’ to be a powersports starter battery with long lifespan and high performance, under a wide range of temperatures.

Finally there is quality control. Every Shorai LFX is built in our own ISO 9000:2008 certified factory. The primary cell ingredients are sourced from Japan, which allows us to produce the most consistent and reliable cells. Then we do individual cell quality control and matching over a six-week period, for every cell we make. This test period is two to four times longer than typical and is expensive for us. But it is worth it, in terms of product quality in the long run."


i think that unless you have used them its really impossible to even have an opinion.

Here's something shorai won't be putting on their website:

www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=23613.0

I was assuming whatever problem they had found must be catastrophic and possibly have legal liability since the only time a manufacturer halts production and stops shipping is if the problem is severe. If it's just a "wart" (something ugly you want to clean up) you fix it on the fly and keep shipping. Anytime you stop shipping with open orders, that business goes to your competitors.

Anyway, the achille's heal of most Li technologies to date has been their propensity to burn up under certain conditions. Apparrently, Shorai has the same problem.

Stu Pidasole wrote:

bountyhunter wrote: SHORAI HAS A PROBLEM:

The site I went to to see about prices has a disclaimer about Shorai redesigning the batteries and there will be a delay. You might want to wait a while since this clearly means the current batteries have a problem they found in the field. They are backlogged with orders (money is on the table) and they were forced to redesign so it must be significant.

my buddy has been using shorai on a 147 s&s 13.5:1 for three years with no problems and he rides constantly.


heres something from shorai's website....

"... Lithium Iron prismatic cells (chemistry LiFePO4)..."


i think that unless you have used them its really impossible to even have an opinion.

This is the same as the a123 cells you where asking about when you started this post. Look them up, they are 3.6v 2300mah LiFePO4 cells, not Li-Ion cells.

Apparently they do not have the same charging issues as Li-Ion and are very robust.

www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/lithium-a123.htm

Stu Pidasole wrote:
i think that unless you have used them its really impossible to even have an opinion.

Well I spent about 33 years in electronics, and the last 20 as a power management design engineer so I think I can have an opinion. BTW: "actually using one" is (by definition) anecdotal info since a lot of people may have used them happily because they didn't get a defective one. The guys who got a defective one, or one which simply did not work in their particular application, won't be so happy.

As I said: actions speak louder than words and a shutdown/recall for a new device with backlogged orders is the loudest siren of all.

Been there, seen that.

bountyhunter wrote: Here's something shorai won't be putting on their website:

www.dotheton.com/forum/index.php?topic=23613.0

I was assuming whatever problem they had found must be catastrophic and possibly have legal liability since the only time a manufacturer halts production and stops shipping is if the problem is severe. If it's just a "wart" (something ugly you want to clean up) you fix it on the fly and keep shipping. Anytime you stop shipping with open orders, that business goes to your competitors.

Anyway, the achille's heal of most Li technologies to date has been their propensity to burn up under certain conditions. Apparrently, Shorai has the same problem.

Very interesting stuff.

tachrev wrote: This is the same as the a123 cells you where asking about when you started this post. Look them up, they are 3.6v 2300mah LiFePO4 cells, not Li-Ion cells.

Apparently they do not have the same charging issues as Li-Ion and are very robust.

www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/lithium-a123.htm

Li-Iron are clearly more robust than Li-Ion. No question about that. As to whether Li-Iron are suitable for auto/MC applications.... time will tell.

My point is, before I drop down $200+ for a battery/tender, I am going to let somebody else buy the first ones with the bugs.

very very intresting. bountyhunter, where are you located?

Stu Pidasole wrote: would these work?....... scroll down to videos.

That sounds like an invitation to express an opinion. If your buddy riding a hardley with a motor that s&s doesn't make (the biggest that they make is 145c.i.) has such good luck with them buy it why bother asking anyone else if your friend is a card carrying member of the "happy customer club"? :blink: :whistle:

bountyhunter wrote:

tachrev wrote: This is the same as the a123 cells you where asking about when you started this post. Look them up, they are 3.6v 2300mah LiFePO4 cells, not Li-Ion cells.

Apparently they do not have the same charging issues as Li-Ion and are very robust.

www.flyelectric.ukgateway.net/lithium-a123.htm

Li-Iron are clearly more robust than Li-Ion. No question about that. As to whether Li-Iron are suitable for auto/MC applications.... time will tell.

My point is, before I drop down $200+ for a battery/tender, I am going to let somebody else buy the first ones with the bugs.

Good point. Someone obviously blew at least one up.

I have to wonder what is in the shorai battery , I read accounts of people trying to blow up a123 cells to see what they would do...there was no fire as a result.

Maybe just more cells letting go at once?

I am not an battery expert by any means.

andy9802gt wrote:

Stu Pidasole wrote: would these work?....... scroll down to videos.

That sounds like an invitation to express an opinion. If your buddy riding a hardley with a motor that s&s doesn't make (the biggest that they make is 145c.i.) has such good luck with them buy it why bother asking anyone else if your friend is a card carrying member of the "happy customer club"? :blink: :whistle:

its a 124 punched out and stroked. 90 over, 4 7/16 stroke. as far as your "happy customer club" comment, opinions are like arse holes. thanks for yours.:pinch: