Some 3 Phase Alternator Findings, 82 1100 A2

So I put this bike together this spring, and it got a new battery then. So far I have Zero electrical problems, even the self canceling turn signals work!

First off the battery has to be fully charged and in good condition, before Any Testing, the Book is really good here with how to use a Hydrometer to test the specific gravity of each cell, and how improper storage/ charging rates etc. can shorten the life or damage a new battery.
The first test is at the Battery you check DC volts running @4000 or so RPM, should be 14-14.5, if to high it can over charge the battery, low and maybe it might discharge. But unless its really low < 12 volts, it may be the system is charging but the wiring connections are dirty/ causing resistance which will lower the current flow. Inspect the connectors and their wires closely, any heat felt at one while the bike is running is a sign of resistance.
So the FSM says Stator resistance should be between .36-54 Ohms @ the connector under the side cover where it comes up from the stator, this has the 3 yellow wires in it. This is measured between each pair, switching your test leads to get 3 pairs checked. Well mine is .7 Ohms on all pairs.
Next we want to check the AC volts that the same pairs will produce @ RPM, book calls for a Reading of "About" 50 AC volts on each pair @ 4000RPM. Mine measures very close to this @ 4000, but lets look further. @ Idle, 900RPM, I get 20 ACV, then as RPM increases to 6000, I get 73-75 ACV. The other FSM Book spec is for the rated AMP output and DC voltage. The Alternator is Rated as 20 AMP output @ 8000RPM. Now I have the "China Tools" AMP meter hooked up for some AMP testing. This is at the Y Bullet connector near the battery, Red/ White wires. One side of the Meter to the Battery, then the other to the 2 remaining wires, 1 comes from the regulator: Charging output, And the other goes to the fuse box 30amp main fuse. So now the meter in in series with the circuit. Now at Key On I get a negative Amp reading, This is what the system is using for power, (this bike is 6.7 AMPs @ Key on and 9.5 running)then fired up the needle swings back over to Positive, Rev it and it swings up around 15 Amps briefly before pulling back to around 5-6 AMPS positive. This first bigger rate is to replace the Amps that the starter used in the battery.
Oh and for this type of R/R with the switched 12v Brown wire, you should check that it is within .5v of the battery reading. It is lower than what the battery is reading, then the R/R will think that it needs to make up this difference, overcharging your battery. So as I believe LOUDHVX suggested I disconnected the brown wire from the R/R, you have to push down on the lock for the terminal to come out of the connector, and then retested the DCV @ the battery, it went up past 17 easily, and if held @ this level would damage other parts. So this is the voltage sense wire for the R/R and needs to know Exactly what the battery voltage is to work correctly. This wire is supplied through the ignition switch and many connections, its the main Ignition switched voltage for the bike.
So if your electrical system is using more AMPs than the Alternator is producing, you will get a negative reading, this maybe why your battery goes dead.
So it seems that in the books I have, all Factory Service Manuals, the 3 phase Alternator output/ resistance/ voltage is only slightly different from a 550 to a 1100, of the same years. The difference being 20AMPs (1100)verses 18.5AMPs (550) @ 2000 less rpm on the larger motor.

Whoa, now that is some good data!

Interesting the 3-phase 1100 stator has similar open-load voltage as the 3-phase 550. Interesting, but not surprising. Regardless of engine size, the KZ's use about the same electrical power, I would suppose. The ignitions are basically the same, and lighting is probably similar.

The starter and battery would probably be the only difference that is significant.

Thanks for that info. We need to keep this stuff on file somewhere.

One of the things I want to do Is set up a cheap easy Load tester that will vary the AMP load with a dial, I am thinking along the path of a DC power drill. Most us have this relatively simple rechargeable drill. It may take a load for it to draw the current, maybe a 1" wood drill and a 2x4. I'll try to get something set up and get some AMP measurements of this tester and the alternator Total AMP output like the FSM spec. 20AMP @ 8000RPM. Then we really know we got the stock rated power that was designed for our beauties.

This is the one I designed. I posted the diagram before, but now i have some actual photos.

The way it works, is you hook it up to the stator, then dial in whatever voltage you want to check at. Let's say 14v. Then you run the motor at different RPMs, and it will tell you how many amps you get at every RPM, at 14v. The internal regulator just varies the amps in the load in order to maintain the voltage on the load.

Then you can redo it at say 13v. Then you see how many amps you get at 13v at each RPM.

It requires two voltmeters. One shows the current through the load, and one shows the voltage on the load.

Obviously this is a pretty elaborate setup, but I've dinked around with other load testing methods, and they are too fiddly, or too simplistic.

Really, the best simple one is to just hook up however many 12 headlights you think will match how much power the bike takes. Then stick a volmeter on it and see if you can light them all up with about 15 or 16vAC directly from the stator. The higher voltage is compensate for rectifier losses for when it's hooked up to the rectifier/regulator.

Here's the actual unit.

Here's the rectifier side.

Here's the regulator side.

Last shot.

Absolutely very very nice indeed!!!
I just want get something set up to vary the load on the system to build to the max rated AMPs with a gauge in series. Keeping both the cost down as well as the easiness for someone else to duplicate. Some stuff they might already have around the garage, + $10 or so. That way they can be sure that they have a working charging system, or find they don't. Then they can verify after whatever repair was done, :woohoo: and ride :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

There is another thing that should be mentioned, because the open-load test won't show it.

Because the stator is and inductor, the charging system and bike load act as a big, complicated R-L circuit. As such, there is a frequency response to it. What that means is, you don't necessarily get more power by going faster. There will come a point where increasing the RPMs will decrease power output.

(Think of riding a swing, kick very slow and the swing moves a little, kick really fast and the swing moves a little. Kick at the right speed, and you can get a lot of motion out of the swing.)

In an R-L circuit, if there is no current (like in the open-load tests we are doing), the circuit will not demonstrate the loss of power at higher RPMs. So it is misleading.

If you really load it down, then the output will increase with RPMs, then reach a max, then as RPMs increase further, power will actually decrease.

The question is, how much load, and at what RPM will it max out. Hopefully the Kawasaki engineers designed it such that the load would be beyond what we would need on a motorcycle, and/or hopefully the RPM at which power starts to drop is beyond what the motor can do.

This is something I haven't investigated at all, so I don't really have any guesses as to what may happen under heavy load. Just wanted to mention this because it's another way an open-load test is not very useful.

As Motor Head says, we really want RPM related current-voltage curves. But that is a LOT of work.

Motor Head wrote:

Absolutely very very nice indeed!!!
I just want get something set up to vary the load on the system to build to the max rated AMPs with a gauge in series. Keeping both the cost down as well as the easiness for someone else to duplicate. Some stuff they might already have around the garage, + $10 or so. That way they can be sure that they have a working charging system, or find they don't. Then they can verify after whatever repair was done, :woohoo: and ride :woohoo: :woohoo: :woohoo:

Yeah, me too. I've messed with quite a few loading devices over the years, and haven't found much other than using a bunch of halogen bulbs.

I made that out of a bunch of spare parts i had laying around, but it wouldn't be a cheap thing to make if you had to buy it all.

I like your idea of using some kind of motor, but motors have a weird power factor (current is out of phase from voltage) so the readings won't be telling the real story. (That's why large industrial facilities are required to use "power-factor correction devices", basically a bank of huge capacitors, so they can be charged accurately for power useage. If you match the motor with a correlated varying capacitor, it could work, but that's a hell of a lot of math to do.

A resistive load is a lot easier on the old abacus. :laugh:

Your are absolutely right, and I will do more testing and get some AMP flow results. I hope to be able to do this in the next few days. Yes it takes time, and it has been raining every day anytime after 1pm. This does put a hold on work do to moisture will effect both my readings partially, and my attitude greatly! :laugh: :laugh: