another hurdle in the resurrection, please help

  • cobura
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25 Oct 2009 18:50 #329626 by cobura
So i finished rebuilding the carb, gas tank, petcock, all that good stuff. Finally went to fire her up for the first time, and when i push the starter button, i just get a "click" sound followed by a buzzing noise. I thought it might be the starter relay, but wasn't sure. Opened up the side panels and they were a complete mess.

-the bike in question is a 77 kz650 b1
-battery ok, plugged into charger
-Fuses all ok
-starter itself is ok

******if someone would be so kind, aside from giving advice, could you please post a picture or redirect me to a picture of the inside of a kz650's side panels. I think I might have things missing.

1979 KZ650B3

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25 Oct 2009 20:30 #329653 by tk11b40
Start with the cheap stuff first.

Ground wire from the frame to the solinoid (dam I cannot ever spell that)

I have had this happen before, and half the time it is just a bad ground.

Suzuki GSXR 750 slabside
Ducati S4R
Husqvarna FE 350s

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25 Oct 2009 21:17 #329662 by MFolks
Starter Solenoid Checkout

Some simple steps to determine what is working and what's not:

1.Fully charge and test the battery(most bike shops can load test the battery, and then use a floating ball hydrometer to check specific gravity in the charged cells).

2.Clean all battery terminals of corrosion.

3.Tighten all starting related connections(Positive RED(+) battery terminal, Negative BLACK(-)terminal) and from the terminal to the engine case. All connections must be clean and tight.

4.Clean the cable from the starter solenoid to the starter motor.

5.Clean and check the "bullet connectors" going to the coil side of the starter solenoid.

6.Try again to start the bike.

7.If no luck, go to step #8

8.Wearing eye protection, bridge with pliers or a screwdriver the two heavy duty(large)terminals on the solenoid. If the bike cranks, your solenoid may be bad.

9. If the starter won’t turn over, one of several things has happened; The starter motor has seized due to brushes binding up, lack of lubrication in the bushings of the motor, the battery is weak , the engine has seized or it could be a combination of any of the above. Some websites for starter motor rebuild kits are:
A. www.mawonline.com/newsite/rick_s_motorsp...-starter_brushes.htm
B. www.cyclewareables.com/pages/street_star...kits/startmtrkit.htm


10.The dealer may want $$$ for a new solenoid, but take your old one along and visit the nearest riding lawn mower shop. They have solenoids for about $15 that with a little work will fit.

11. I’d recommend upgrading from the existing battery cables to at least 6 gauge welding cables.
They are available in two colors(RED and BLACK) have more flexibility due to being constructed with finer conductors, and will fit in tighter areas.

12. The welding cable is sold by the foot ,so take careful measurements or bring your old cables along. Most battery shops might be able to supply the cable too, so call to find out. The battery shop should be able to crimp/swage on the end of the welding cable the terminal ends or lugs using either a dedicated crimping machine or a tool that looks like a bolt cutter that has special dies to terminate the cable.

1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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  • cobura
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26 Oct 2009 20:26 #329858 by cobura
thanks again mfolks for the detailed explanation. you really know your stuff. At this point, i know the engine is ok, it will kick over. Even though it will kick, i havent tried starting it yet simply because i want to double check everything first. The reason i want to use the starter is to check for spark. I think that is a good idea to replace those old battery cables, i will do that.

But recently i realized that i have things missing. originally the z650 had a separate rectifier and regulator(not sure about the US model, i'm referring to the japanese model). The previous owner got rid of both and replaced them with a modern one that does both, but this new regulator/rectifier was obviously not designed to work with this bike since some of its wired have been cut and it has been hard-wired around other parts, which is why i keep blowing fuses. Today i ordered a new regulator/rectifier, but i am still pretty sure the starter relay is bad too. After i replace the regulator/rectifier, i will go through your recommended steps. I know the starter should be working because it would turn over only a month ago before i bought the bike.

1979 KZ650B3

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26 Oct 2009 21:11 #329870 by MFolks
Look here:http://oregonmotorcycleparts.com/rectifiers3p.html
This website has regulator/rectifiers that might work in your situation.

1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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26 Oct 2009 21:15 #329871 by timebomb33
Replied by timebomb33 on topic another hurdle in the resurrection, please help
you can bypass the starter relay if all you want to do is check the spark just hook booster cables up to the battery positive first always then hook the positive cable up to the main power cable eiter at the starter or on the output side of the relay then turn on the ignition key and the touch an engine or chassis ground and viola we have crankage. you will be able to verify spark.

1973 z1 2-1974z1-a,2-1975z1-b dragbikes1015cc+1393cc, 1977kz1000,1978kz1000,1981kz1000j, 1997 zx-11, 2000 z12r,1428turbo nitrous pro-mod and a shit load of parts thats all for now leader sask.,CANADA
I THINK MY POWERBAND BROKE

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27 Oct 2009 12:03 #329945 by OnkelB
Electrically speaking the 77 650s (B1 and C1) are different from the rest of the 650s in that they have an excited field alternator where later models (78 and up) have permanent magnet alternators.

It's not just a matter of separate reg and rec, the 77 alternator needs to have an output from the regulator to the field coil in order to work - a combined reg/rec does not have this output and won't work with the 77 alternator.

Checking if you have the excited field alternator is very simple: look at your alternator cover (front bottom cover to the left as you sit on the bike). If you have 3 bolts set in a triangle in the center of the cover you have an excited field alternator and will need the corresponding 77 regulator and rectifier.

I'll dig around my puter and see if I can come up with some pics of what should be behind the left side cover.

77 KZ 650 B1, 82 GPz 1100 B2.

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