trying to get a project running - need some help

Patton wrote:

sharkynrk wrote:

...not getting any spark, and it looks like the ic ignitor is not properly grounding and ungrounding as the rotor passes through the pick up coil. looking at the ic ignitor I see 9 wires. 12v power, ground, 4 pickup coil wires, 2 ignition coil wires, and a wire to the junction box. the wire to the junction box goes to a diode plug that has three wires itself - kill switch, side stand, neutral...how can i verfiy the kill switch is not stopping the ic ignitor from running? i had checked continuity previously on that switch and it looked good...what else can be stopping me - this is the roadblock

looking at the ic ignitor I see 9 wires. 12v power, ground, 4 pickup coil wires, 2 ignition coil wires, and a wire to the junction box.

That's only eight wires, guessed as follows:

ONE 12v red/yellow power wire

FOUR pickup coil wires (2 to each pickup)

TWO ign coil wires
(black signal wire to one ign coil)
(green signal wire to the other ign coil)

ONE black/yellow ground wire

What is the 9th wire?

how can i verfiy the kill switch is not stopping the ic ignitor from running?

Bat+ on red/yellow to ign coils from igniter should exist only with the ignition switch turned ON (and am presupposing this is the situation at hand).

With bat+ to coil, and grounded via signal wire through igniter, thereby creating magnetic field, the UNgrounding (via pickup coil to igniter) collapses the magnetic field, sending high intensity voltage through the secondary loop (firing the spark plugs). Am thinking the grounding function during coil charging time relies on the black/yellow wire from the igniter.

Is it certain that the black/yellow ground wire from the igniter is properly grounded? Could ohm-test black/yellow wire from igniter to engine.

Do the pickup coils rely on a power source? (As does the Dyna-S). And if so, has switched bat+ to pickup coils been verified?

Just shotgunning.

Good Luck!

ok, the last sentence of that post - a wire to the junction box is the 9th wire. The ground on the ic ignitor to the engine is continuous with 0 ohms of resistnace so I know the ground is good. I will check the 12v to the ic ignitor on the red/yellow wire to verify that issue - I think I have verified before but will check again. the ignition coils get a 12v source from a seperate red wire in the harness that does not go through the ic ignitor - and it has full battery voltage on the coils.

i went in for the oral surgery and had an infection so I am on a round of antibiotics for a week - i will try and check the power to the ic ignitor on red/yellow this evening to verify - I also will make another list of all things checked thus far so we can tally and try anything else that comes to mind.

thanks again

Thanks for the report.

Am wondering if a '84 zn700 color wiring diagram is available for reference.

Good Luck!

yes I have one - can I email it to you

so i have 12v on the ic ignitor, still looking for cause of no spark

As known, it's UNgrounding of a charged coil that's supposed to fire through the secondary loop (which secondary loop includes the spark plugs).

Could experiment to attempt producing plug spark without igniter and pickup coil.

Engine not running.

Leave switched bat+ voltage wire attached to ignition coil.

Disconnect wire between ignition coil and igniter.

With one spark plug removed and grounded against engine head, and ignition switched ON so ignition coil has bat+ voltage, use a separately grounded test wire to quickly and repeatedly manually ground and unground the coil primary terminal that normally connects to the igniter.

Should produce plug spark same as if igniter and pickup coil were properly functioning to ground (charge) and unground (fire) the coil.

If plug sparks by manually grounding and ungrounding ignition coil, am thinking igniter and/or pickup coil is defective, or associated wiring or connector is defective.

If plug doesn't spark by manually grounding and ungrounding ignition coil, am thinking igniter and/or pickup coil might be okay, but that ignition coil is defective, or secondary loop is malfunctioning for whatever reason.

Good Luck!

i am gonna try this, what I think I will do it make a ground wire with a bare end and a spade connector on the other and will just use that as the manual ground and see what happens

have not given up yet, but have not tried to verify either - sick and dental surgery do not make good bedfellows

ok well tried the grounding and ungrounding manually and it didn't work. i could see the spark jump to the engine block but nothing at the spark plug - not sure that it would work though anyways - just seemed to not cycle fast enough

sharkynrk wrote:

ok well tried the grounding and ungrounding manually and it didn't work. i could see the spark jump to the engine block but nothing at the spark plug - not sure that it would work though anyways - just seemed to not cycle fast enough

The visible spark is a good sign. But by jumping to the block, the high intensity voltage is escaping the secondary loop without circulating through the plugs.

When manually ungrounded, from where does the spark jump to the engine block?

If getting spark to engine block but no spark at plug terminal, would look for lack of continuity between plug wire to boot or across resistor inside boot or between boot and spark plug or a faulty plug.

Maybe the plug wires are old, hard, cracked and leaking, and thereby allowing secondary loop voltage to escape to ground without circulating through the plugs. Ohm-testing the secondary loop between boot connections would not necessarily detect such condition.

If not already done, would install four brand new NGKB8ES sparkplugs, hook all the wiring back up, and again attempt to start the engine:

Ignition switch ON;
Kill switch in RUN position;
Kick stand UP;
Clutch lever squeezed;
Choke lever pulled fully UP;
Throttle grip UNTOUCHED.

If problem persists, would remove fuel tank, spray water mist over plug wires, and repeat same starting effort in a dark garage. Watch for errant spark arcing.

Good Luck!

thanks for the support - I re-read my post and I was a little unclear. when I manually grounded the coil terminal with a jumper wire, upon touching the jumper wire to the block I recieved an arc across the jumper to the engine block. Nothing on the secondary side of the coil.

I do have IGN ON, Kill in Run, Kick Stand Up, Clutch lever disabled at the cable so its not making the switch (don't have to hold it), Choke UP, and Throttle in idle position only.

I do not have the tank on, but an running out of a small surge tank so I can see everything. I will purchase new plugs and am looking for some reasonably priced new coils (ie not $150 a piece).

On the plus side, I rewired a '06 ZX6R right side control and it operates perfectly, installed a '06 ZX6R radial mount m/c and throttle tube. I needed something to pick up my spirits on this bike. I do need to figure out what to do with the throttle cable though. the stocker is both too long for the daytona bars and the wrong angle to fit the 6R throttle tube. Also looking to get a new clutch cable as the stocker is too long and the 6R cable that came with the clutch perch too short

sharkynrk wrote:

thanks for the support - I re-read my post and I was a little unclear. when I manually grounded the coil terminal with a jumper wire, upon touching the jumper wire to the block I recieved an arc across the jumper to the engine block. Nothing on the secondary side of the coil.

I do have IGN ON, Kill in Run, Kick Stand Up, Clutch lever disabled at the cable so its not making the switch (don't have to hold it), Choke UP, and Throttle in idle position only.

I do not have the tank on, but an running out of a small surge tank so I can see everything. I will purchase new plugs and am looking for some reasonably priced new coils (ie not $150 a piece).

On the plus side, I rewired a '06 ZX6R right side control and it operates perfectly, installed a '06 ZX6R radial mount m/c and throttle tube. I needed something to pick up my spirits on this bike. I do need to figure out what to do with the throttle cable though. the stocker is both too long for the daytona bars and the wrong angle to fit the 6R throttle tube. Also looking to get a new clutch cable as the stocker is too long and the 6R cable that came with the clutch perch too short

when I manually grounded the coil terminal with a jumper wire, upon touching the jumper wire to the block I recieved an arc across the jumper to the engine block. Nothing on the secondary side of the coil.

Can such arc be replicated on the other coil?

Can such arc be replicated by grounding the coil primary terminal with a jumper wire upon touching the jumper wire to the signal wire from the igniter?

On the other coil, can such arc be replicated by grounding the coil primary terminal with a jumper wire upon touching the jumper wire to the signal wire from the igniter?

This could indicate that the coil primary is reaching ground through the igniter as it's supposed to.

Failure of high intensity voltage to circulate through the secondary loop could result from either:

Igniter failing for whatever reason to send the "unground" signal as it's supposed to;

Secondary loop is failing for whatever reason.

Seems unlikely that both coils would simultaneously fail.

With coils' primary windings receiving bat+ voltage, and reaching ground through the igniter, the coils' primary sides should be okay.

With the coils' primary sides okay, but no high intensity voltage ever appearing in the secondary loop on either coil, I would suspect failure of "unground" signals from the igniter to the coils.

Failure of "unground" signals from the igniter to the coils could result from a faulty igniter or its associated wiring, OR defective pickup coils (whereby pickup coils are failing to communicate with the igniter). Such communication failure could be in the pickup coils themselves or in the wiring between them and the igniter.

As known, it's the communication from pickup coils to the igniter whereby the igniter is supposed to repeatedly ground and unground the coil primaries.

Because of the above, I would suspect the pre-coil components (pickups, igniter, and associated wiring) before suspecting the coils or post-coil components.

From the peanut gallery. :lol:

Good Luck!