No spark !!! help please

I need some help from people that may have experience this before. I recently purchased a 75' Z1 that was completely rebuilt and rewired. Ive come to figure out im not getting spark. I have what looks like brand new green dyna coils and new looking wires. which is wired to the what was the contact breaker but was replaced with a brand new looking dyna magnetio (i guess thats what its called) I replaced the battery and all the lights work and turn signals work headlights included. The eletrical start was put on the side cover with a button also there is toggle switch underneath that appears to be wired to the button but i havent been able to figure out its purpose. I was able to check the coils and figured out they are getting close to 12 volts to the terminals. So why am i not getting spark? Anyone have a clue what to check now?


Thanks alot I can take some pics to better show you guys whats going on.

I think the seventh level of hell is reserved for people who screw up stock wiring and don't document anything that they do....

A coil is just a transformer: the primary winding has +12V applied to the top and the bottom lead is the one "broken" by the points or semiconductor switch device. When the switch is closed, current flows in the primary from the 12V feed line to ground. When the switch opens the neg side of the primary winding, a big voltage is created and the secondary steps it up even more to over 20kV.

If you have 12V on the coil primary and no spark:

1) The "switch" is not breaking the flow

2) the coil is bad

That solid-state magneto plate that replaced the points would be my #1 suspect. If it was mine, I'd shop ebay and get the stock points back on it to get it running and screw around with aftermarket ignition parts later.

PhildoBaggins wrote

... recently purchased a 75' Z1 ... not getting spark... new green dyna coils and new looking wires... new looking dyna magneto...replaced the battery and all the lights work and turn signals work headlights included. The eletrical start was put on the side cover with a button also there is toggle switch underneath that appears to be wired to the button but i havent been able to figure out its purpose. I was able to check the coils and figured out they are getting close to 12 volts to the terminals. So why am i not getting spark? Anyone have a clue what to check now?

Hello, PhildoBaggins, and WELCOME to the site. :)We're glad you're here!

Perhaps toggle replaces the standard key switch and button spins the starter. Where toggle-on provides voltage to coils and toggle-off stops voltage to coils.

Usually three wires emerge from the Dyna unit under the points cover. A black wire from left Dyna module to left coil. A green wire to right Dyna module to right coil. And a red wire which taps into battery voltage to power the Dyna unit.

The Dyna unit triggers the left coil to fire both outside plugs and triggers the right coil to fire both inside plugs. The trigger works by breaking the coil's primary connection to ground whereby the current then travels through the plug wires and arcs across the plug tip to ground.

Would first assure good connection at red wire tap providing battery voltage to Dyna.

Would test using new NGKB8ES plugs.

Would assure continuity in green wire between right coil and Dyna and continuity in black wire between left coil and Dyna.

Good Luck!

Post edited by: Patton, at: 2008/01/22 17:43

Would by chance the toggle switch be bad? If so how can i test for that? Also If im reading it correctly Im testing the on the connecting wire between the two coils? And the other two as well? Also to make things more a headahce all the wires are red they must of had a sell on red wiring because thats the only color. Feel my pain everyone This bike is in really good shape and all the components looks new. So thats what makes this even harder to deal with.


Thanks for your help guys you are all a god send.

phil

PhildoBaggins wrote:

Would by chance the toggle switch be bad? If so how can i test for that? Also If im reading it correctly Im testing the on the connecting wire between the two coils? And the other two as well? Also to make things more a headahce all the wires are red they must of had a sell on red wiring because thats the only color. Feel my pain everyone This bike is in really good shape and all the components looks new. So thats what makes this even harder to deal with. Thanks for your help guys you are all a god send. phil

Having battery voltage reach a coil is like the result of switching a standard key ignition to the "on" position. Since battery voltage is already present at both coils, I don't suspect the toggle switch to be preventing spark at the plugs.

Any connecting wire between the two coils should be only the wire providing battery voltage to the coils. There should be no other wiring connections between the two coils. The two coils are independent of each other, with the only common wiring being that each coil receives battery voltage. The left-side coil fires the two outside plugs. And the right-side coil fires the two inside plugs. Each coil goes merrily about the business of firing its own two plugs and without giving a flip about how the other coil and plugs might be doing.

Consider the left coil. Battery voltage is supplied to the left-side coil via a wire to one of its two terminals (it doesn't matter which terminal). The other left-side coil terminal connects via a wire to the left-side Dyna module under the points cover (usually a black wire emerging from the Dyna and running all the way to the left coil terminal). Objective is to have battery voltage supplied to one left-side coil terminal and a good electrical connection between the other left-side coil terminal and left-side Dyna module.

Consider the right coil. Battery voltage is supplied to the coil via a wire to one of its two terminals (it doesn't matter which terminal). The other right-side coil terminal connects via a wire to the right-side Dyna module under the points cover (usually a green wire emerging from the Dyna and running all the way to the right coil terminal). Objective is to have battery voltage to one right-side coil terminal and a good electrical connection between the other right-side coil terminal and right-side Dyna module.

The bike's original wiring harness had a single wire (under the fuel tank) supplying battery voltage when the ignition was switched on. The wire had a dual connector at the end which fed one separate wire to the left-side coil and another separate wire to the right-side coil, thereby supplying battery voltage to both coils. But your bike might not have a dual connector. Your bike might be wired with a single wire supplying battery voltage to one coil terminal and another wire from that same coil terminal to a terminal on the other coil, which arrangement would also supply battery voltage to both coils. Except for possibly the battery voltage supply to the coils, there should be no other wiring connection between the coils.

Consider powering the Dyna unit. Usually a red wire emerges from the Dyna (from under the points cover) and taps into some wire on the bike which will provide battery voltage to the Dyna unit when battery voltage is also reaching the coils. Many folks choose to power the Dyna by tapping into the wire which is also providing battery voltage to the coils. The objective is to provide battery voltage to the Dyna which the Dyna needs in order to function. Failure of this wiring tap is common, and without power to the Dyna, the Dyna won't function.

If not already obtained, perhaps there's a wiring diagram nearby.

Good Luck!

Post edited by: Patton, at: 2008/01/22 17:32

Wiring diagram -- go to link

wiring diagram

then click Z1A+B US to download wiring diagram

Post edited by: Patton, at: 2008/01/22 17:40

Post edited by: Patton, at: 2008/01/22 17:41

Thank you so much I feel like i just went to school i understand exactly what your saying and it looks like thats how they wired it to supply power to the other.now i just have to figure out where the bad connection is.

No spark to 1/4 could indicate bad trigger wire connection between left-side coil and left-side Dyna module (black wire). Especially if getting spark on 2/3 plugs.

No spark to 2/3 could indicate bad trigger wire connection between right-side coil and right-side Dyna module (black wire). Especially if getting spark on 1/4 plugs.

No spark to any plug could indicate bad power connection (tap-in from bike wire with battery voltage) to Dyna unit.

With all wires being red color, may require frequent ohmmeter testing (check continuity) to determine which wires go where.

Have stressed the red/black/green color wires "emerging" from Dyna unit because believing these wires would not have been changed.

All red wires -- okay, keeps life interesting. :lol:

I traced a no fire problem on my 73z1 back to the screws on the dyna coils, Loctite fixed the problem. If the harness is as butched and hacked as you say, study the schematics and chase EVERY circuit with special attention to the connections. Are connections soldered or crimp on. My harness was in pretty rough shape so I bought a kz400 harness off of e-bay so I could use the connectors and found that almost the whole harness was identical as far as wire color, number of pins in the connectors, Had to modify some gauge lighting wiring and the circuit for main power as my bike has only one fuse for the whole system and the 400 harness had multiple fused circuits. I soldered everything and used the proper grease to stop corrosion of terminals. By doing this myself and keeping close to the schematics with wire color I know that I will not break down because of anything that has to do with the wiring. That is one less thing to worry about when you ride 35 year old motorcycles. Tackle this smartly, wiring problems can ruin a really nice ride on a country road or any road for that matter. Good Luck

Here's a thought. Since all the wiring is colored red, I would imagine that keeping the various circuits straight, could be a problem. Idealy you would want to either get a new/used wiring harness or alternately make a new harness using the proper colored wires. An alternative would be to get rolls of different colored plastic tape. Once you've tracked down a circuit put a piece of the correct color tape on both ends of that wire. This should allow you to keep track of which circuits have been tracked down and it will also give you the correct wire colors for future diagnostics.

PB, Go to your profile and EDIT. Put your bike year/model and your location. If you lived next to me, I would never know it especially since your bike doesn't run and I couldn't hear it bwhahahahaha

Next step will be for you to post a pic of the mess. I can't quite follow the description. Do you have a keyed ignition switch? Identify what type ignition you have. Go to Dynaonline.com and look at their ignitions. Was any of the original wiring harness used or are there all new wires (hopefully in one color only)? Once you have done this stuff, I can tell you how to fix your problem.

PhildoBaggins wrote:

Also to make things more a headahce all the wires are red they must of had a sell on red wiring because thats the only color. Feel my pain everyone

phil

That's just plain cruel...... get a set of Sharpies in four colors and use the black, green and blue to tag the wires along their length to make it easier to trace them.