Biquetoast and whoever else....

Bique, I was merely thinking out loud to give a fresh input to the discussion. I didn't mean to criticize your advise which I know is based on your experience.

And Shawn, I don't know what kind of rebuild kits you used, but I addressed a simple question about Keyster kits to a well know company in the carb business, and their reply was very simple, and short: " Keyster kits are well know for their inaccuracy."

And this is a qoute from Dan's Mc Repair Course:

"Finally, a word on parts. Use only the carbs manufacturers brand of parts. Do Not use aftermarket carb kits or parts. Their quality control is lousy ( all of them ! ) Trust me on this, I speak from way too much experience."

www.dansmc.com/carbs.htm

The bike is fouling plugs at a much faster rate than before so that eliminates the rebuild kit from being the only culprit. It could be a combo of things.. rebuild kit is junk, and I may have spark issues. Where can I get a Mikuni rebuild kit (other than dealer).

ibsen22000 wrote:

Bique, I was merely thinking out loud to give a fresh input to the discussion. I didn't mean to criticize your advise which I know is based on your experience...

Ivar, I like to think of you and me as eternally on good terms. It's so hard to type in a forum without the benefit of body language, but every time I write a response to you, I'm doing it like we're standing in a garage, holding a beer, looking at the bike. We've dismissed the formalities of a new acquaintance, and cut to the chase.

So I wasn't offended, and have so far never been offended by you (okay, maybe once, but that was a long time ago ), and I hope you take my responses the same way I take yours: well-intended and generally friendly. For that matter, I hope *everyone* sees me that way.

So, if it's possible, from now on, I want *everyone* to read my posts as though I'm smiling, speaking plainly, un-sarcastically (unless otherwise noted), and in the spirit of good nature and kindness. Why? Because I have been trying, ever since I joined this forum, to "pass-it-on" in a way I learned from the earliest members here, in honor of them. In fact Ivar, you're one of them.

shawntmartin wrote:

Biquetoast,
Is the "short bus" version of the diagram going to be exactly the same when I get the 3.0?

Yep. I specifically mentioned the handling of those wires, etc., in the post above.

Also, any chance of this 2.2 ohm coil hurting the Newtronic?

Well, it still ran, however poorly, so I don't think so.

Yep. I specifically mentioned the handling of those wires, etc., in the post above

First of all, let me say that I appreciate your patience with all of this. I'm sure this is proabably getting old but the newest thing that throws me is that I have 1 diagram with the 3.0coil with 1 wire going to the Newtronic. And another diagram with the 2.2coil with 3 wires to the Newtronic, but I don't have one for the 3.0coil with 3 wires to the Newtronic. If you have covered it, then I need to go re-read things, because I missed it. Can you point out where that is because I'm an idiot who needs spoon fed.. Sorry.

Post edited by: shawntmartin, at: 2007/03/29 13:50

shawntmartin wrote:

...thing that throws me is that I have 1 diagram with the 3.0coil with 1 wire going to the Newtronic. And another diagram with the 2.2coil with 3 wires to the Newtronic, but I don't have one for the 3.0coil with 3 wires to the Newtronic...

Yep, ok, no prob... it's all good.

So here's the grid as posted above, from the perspective of the relay:

blue = 30 = Fused power line to starter solenoid
red = 87a = Unused
yellow = 87 = Acc2, DIRECT connection to coil (where the black wire is now) AND to white wire on Newtronic
white = 86 = Trigger input to relay (connect to yellow/red wire labaled as "to handlebars")
black = 85 = Ground to frame

...and here's the grid from teh perspective of the Newtronic, based on the wire colors connected to teh Newtronic in your diagram above:

white = power input = connected directly to yellow wire on relay
yellow = coil fire = connect directly to coil (as currently is the case)
blue = ground = leave as is, connected to ground
black wire cluster = "points" connection = though you didn't mention this or diagram it, I'll mention that you should leave it alone (currently runs to trigger unit, where points normally go)

As for the coil, I'm considering everything as though the 3.0 is in place. I mean, they're a direct swap (they're the same size/shape/connections/etc, so in my mind, the 2.2 is already replaced and sold on eBay.

Does that help? Let me know...



EDIT: Edited for technical accuracy...

Post edited by: Biquetoast, at: 2007/03/29 18:38

Well I finally see where the confusion is. I didn't realize the 2.2 and the 3 had the exact same connections. I was under the impression they were going to be different, and *thought* i would need a new diagram. What would have eliminated this confusion is for me to have actually had the 3.0 in my hands before asking questions and for me to only post questions when I'm had home and can look at the bike. Instead, I'm posting questions while I'm at my day job. (No bike to look at). This all makes perfect sense to me now and my absolute, final diagram of the finished product should look like this:


(NOT BE TAKEN AS A REVISION TO THE ORIGINAL..I'M NOT TRYING TO UPDATE OR REVISE ANYTHING)

Correct? Please examine this closely for mistakes before giving me the green light. Thank you all for helping! Thanks Biquetoast for all of your patience. We'll see if this fixes it.

Post edited by: shawntmartin, at: 2007/03/29 16:12

Hi Shawn,
I've been discussing it with Biquetoast, but I have one concern about the relay's yellow wire and the relay's red wire. BT is saying they both get power at the same time, but that disagrees with what I see on the net about the Bosch relays.

There are some relays that have two #87 terminals, and there are some that have one #87 and one #87a.

For your diagram to work I believe you would need the one with two #87 terminals. If you have the one with an 87 and 87a, the wiring would be slightly different.

Can you check the terminal numbers on the relay?
Thanks.

If your relay is a Bosch 330-070, and the 5-wire socket is 330-075, then I think this would be the wire colors (based on what you've drawn above).
.


Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2007/03/29 17:46

loudhvx wrote:

...There are some relays that have two #87 terminals, and there are some that have one #87 and one #87a.

For your diagram to work I believe you would need the one with two #87 terminals. If you have the one with an 87 and 87a, the wiring would be slightly different...

Oh my, I just went and checked, and I do apologize! :blush: Lou is right, I made a mistake!

On the first bike I did the coil-power mod, I got a relay from a local store, and it *happened* to have TWO 87 connections (not an 87 and an 87a). I hooked it up such that one 87 powers my coil and the other powers my Newtronic.

Since then, I have ordered relays with an 87 and an 87a, and coincidentally have not yet used the 87a, so I never noticed the difference!

But nonetheless, Shawn, all you need to do different is use the yellow off the pigtail to power both the Newtronic and the coil, no big deal. Whoa, I just noticed, Lou posted a nice pic for you. Just do that.

Sorry for that, and thanks Lou so much (again)!

EDIT: Man I'm embarrassed about that. Now, I'm going to go back over the last many posts I've made regarding the relay and edit them to be technically correct. I may look like an idiot now, but I want the future readers to have the benefit of my corrections....

Post edited by: Biquetoast, at: 2007/03/29 18:30

No prob, I saw this issue come up on another relay-mod thread.

BT, if it's not a big hassle, can you confirm for me the wire colors to the 86 and 85 terminals?

The photo I have from the net shows what looks like 85-white, and 86-black, but I noticed that's opposite of what you have. I'm only really concerned with the Bosch 330-070 relay, but if the other relay you have has 85 and 86 reversed, we should probably make note of that too.

As far as editing previous posts, that's very honorable, and goes above and beyond, in my opinion. Don't take it hard, I've found myself in that position as well. This site is all about gathering and organizing tech info, which is one of the most difficult things to do 100% correctly. (Look at all the mistakes in Clymer manuals, and they're getting paid!) Thanks to everyone's efforts, this site is better than anything existed previously for KZ's.

Post edited by: loudhvx, at: 2007/03/29 18:40

loudhvx wrote:

...BT, if it's not a big hassle, can you confirm for me the wire colors to the 86 and 85 terminals?...

Sure. I have a relay and pigtail in my hand. I bought extras...

87 = yellow
87a = red
86 = white
85 = black
30 = blue

...I double...triple-checked. The above grid, just to be clear to others, is using the following items:

12VDC BOSCH RELAY SPDT 30A
12VDC 5-PIN RELAY SOCKET

Biquetoast wrote:

loudhvx wrote:

...BT, if it's not a big hassle, can you confirm for me the wire colors to the 86 and 85 terminals?...

Sure. I have a relay and pigtail in my hand. I bought extras...

87 = yellow
87a = red
86 = white
85 = black
30 = blue

...I double...triple-checked. The above grid, just to be clear to others, is using the following items:

12VDC BOSCH RELAY SPDT 30A
12VDC 5-PIN RELAY SOCKET

HMM, well then is it possible the photo of the 5-pin relay socket is reversed in the link above? The white wire appears to be swapped with the black.