Won't Idle on all four - HELP!!! About to give up!!!

KB02 wrote:

Grrrr....

Air screw found. air passages cleaned out. fuel passages cleaned out (again). Air screw screwed all the way in, air screw screwed all the way out, air screw actually sitting in my hand... no difference either way. And no difference at any point in between.

Sounds like you have blocked areas in your carbs still.
Air screw... I asume you are talking about the Pilot Mixture screw.
Just my 2 cents..

Howdy -- and with humble admiration of WG as a Jacques Costeau in the Kawasaki ocean whilst I'm still hunting the beach. Having felt your pain (and lived), here's my KZ900 experience with similar symptoms. The short 12 volt feed wire from the dual connector under the tank to the left coil had an intermittent internal failure undetectable by visual inspection as the outside appearance and insulation looked just fine. Wiggling and manipulating this wire would cause the ohmmeter to bounce indicating an intermittant connection (probably from barely connecting to no connection at all). Replacing this short section of 12 volt feed wire solved the problem for me. Another way to check this might be to wiggle the wire around or just temporarily replace or supplement it with a fresh piece while running the engine with the tank removed, and at least eliminate this as a possible suspect. Happy trails.

Okay, so I checked out your website. Very informative. Thanks!

As for connection, all the vent tubing is currently off the bike while I have been working on this, so no blocks in those tubes anyway.

1. are vent lines pinched or plugged?
The vent lines in between the carbs are the one thing that I have not yet thought to check on the carbs. That will be a weekend task due to job and time commitments the rest of this week.

2. do you have a vacuum actuated petcock? If so, is it connected correctly? Does the bike exhibit same problem when in "PRI" position?
Yes to all. I rebuilt the petcock this summer. The diamphram was shot. It appears to be working properly now. However, my vacume port is located on the #4 carb, not 2 or 3 like it says on your website. Is that a point of concern?

3. do you have an inline fuel filter?
No, I don't.

4. Is there any sharp bend or kink in the fuel line from the tank to the carb fuel inlet?
Nope. Fuel line is in a beautiful downward arch.

5. Is there sediment in the tank that could clog the screen on your petcock?
The tank is relatively clean. When I rebuilt the petcock, I cleaned out what little junk was in the tank at that time (as well as cleaned out the in tank filter).

cnyl: Yes. Pilot mixture screw is what I meant.

Patton: That thought had crossed my mind. In fact I acted on that thought and tried it with jumping the wires, completely by passing the loom all together. same issue.

What's really going to tick me off is if it turns out to be those vent line that I just didn't think to clean out. We'll see. Time... and elbow greese... will tell.

I need to check on something and will get back on this...

Vent lines into the carbs are clear.

You had mentioned that the vacuum line on #4 was connected to the petcock and that is correct. I wanted to check as it is normally on #3 carb and the number four didn't sound right.

Vents are clear. No kinks in gas hose. Hmmm... Seems you will have to remove the carbs. Since the problem happens at idle on #1 and #4, best to check the pilot circuits. Get a can of spray carb cleaner and some safety goggles. PLEASE USE THE GOGGLES.

OK, remove the air screws on all the carbs. I can not recall specifically how the pilot air jets are fitted to your bike but they will be holes near the edge where the carbs hook to the air cleaners. They will generally be on the same side as the pilot jet. Anyway, spray carb cleaner in the hole where the air screw goes for each carb after you put your finger on the hole where the pilot jet is situated. Look down the venturi of the carb. The carb cleaner will come out the opening in the edge where the pilot air jet is situated and will come out the hole on the bottom of the carb venturi on the engine side of the needle jet. If it doesn't the passageways are clogged... do this for all four and see if there is a difference. You can also remove the pilot jets and shoot some carb cleaner into the well. It will come out directly on the other side thought the atomizing hole behind the needle jet. If you spray it into the hole on the venturi edge, holding your finger over the pilot well and well where the air screw went, it will also come out the small atomizing hole.

If you spray and don't find carb cleaner makes it through on the affected carbs, they need to be cleaned. Generally, an ultrasonic bath will do it. You might also try poking fine wire into the wells and holes. The "air jet" may not be a jet but just the fixed size opening... didn't want to confuse you. On some carbs, this is actually a small removeable jet but I don't think it is on Tekei carbs. I think it is just a fixed size hole.

Okay, I think I may have fond one issue that is effecting #4, but I don't see any issues with #1.

All the idle air and fuel passages are clean. Carb cleaner goes right where it should (almost... I'll get to that in a second). Would you beleive that in 26 years I am the first one to remove the air screw plugs on these carbs?

Now, on these carbs, right above where the idle jet screws into the housing, there is a small hole that is blocked off by what looks like a small brass ball. On the #4 carb, that ball is missing. I have attatched a picture that I have altered slightly with photo impressions to help show it off a little better. The carbs are upside down and you are looking at #4 on the right, and #3 on the left. The idle jets were removed when I took the picture, so I just drew them back in (crudley, I know). The #4 carb did not have as much carb cleaner flowing as the other carbs did when I sprayed into them during the test. When I got to this point, I noticed that it appears to be an almost direct shot from this hole to the air screw inlet.

Might this be affecting the performance on #4? Should I block this hole off? How / could this be affecting #1?



Post edited by: KB02, at: 2006/10/18 20:39

Let me look at a set of those carbs up in my shop after lunch. It seems to me that there shouldn't be a hole here... it would make a mess of pilot fuel flow but before I pop off and swear to it, I want to have a look... I have a couple sets of those Tekei's on my shelves.

Had a similar problem with my 1979 KZ1000ST, had me over for weeks, ended up a small hole in the vacuum petrol tap diaphragm!! I think if your is the same it would effect piston 3, just an idea!

Oye..so my 550 just jumped onto your bandwagon KB02..I'm not firing on 2&3, so i've gotten so far as swapping coils, and I may just remove the carbs to check all the passageways too.

Is there a way to clean the carbs without going ultra-sonic?

This blows..I'm still having starting issues, but I know 2&3 aren't firing because the pipes are cold to the touch, where 1&4 are noticeably warm after *almost* firing up.

*sigh* :huh:

KB02 wrote:

Okay, I think I may have fond one issue that is effecting #4, but I don't see any issues with #1.

All the idle air and fuel passages are clean. Carb cleaner goes right where it should (almost... I'll get to that in a second). Would you beleive that in 26 years I am the first one to remove the air screw plugs on these carbs?

Now, on these carbs, right above where the idle jet screws into the housing, there is a small hole that is blocked off by what looks like a small brass ball. On the #4 carb, that ball is missing. I have attatched a picture that I have altered slightly with photo impressions to help show it off a little better. The carbs are upside down and you are looking at #4 on the right, and #3 on the left. The idle jets were removed when I took the picture, so I just drew them back in (crudley, I know). The #4 carb did not have as much carb cleaner flowing as the other carbs did when I sprayed into them during the test. When I got to this point, I noticed that it appears to be an almost direct shot from this hole to the air screw inlet.

Might this be affecting the performance on #4? Should I block this hole off? How / could this be affecting #1?

<br><br>Post edited by: KB02, at: 2006/10/18 20:39

If it turns out it should be blocked off, I would use some JBWeld or similar product. let it dry for 24 hrs so it will be gas proof

77KZ650 wrote:
If it turns out it should be blocked off, I would use some JBWeld or similar product. let it dry for 24 hrs so it will be gas proof

I was thinking of tapping the whole and using a small set screw and thread sealer. But the JB isn't too bad an idea, eihter.

PYXEN: Just follow the diagnostics that WiredGeorge laid out for me. Should be a big help. What happened when you swapped your coils?

Post edited by: KB02, at: 2006/10/19 09:01