Diff settings between Cyl 1&4 and 2&3

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24 Jul 2022 18:42 #870958 by mac0239
Diff settings between Cyl 1&4 and 2&3 was created by mac0239
Hey gang.  Been too long since I was on here.  Decided a couple years ago when my KZ was seeping around head gasket to park it until I had time to rip it apart.  Then decided to pickup 4 "project" dirt bikes for wife and my kids to do the dirt thing.  Anyways finally pulled everything apart on my 79 KZ1000 st and I noticed the valves there is quite a diff in carbon /sludge on the valves .   The inner two have some buy the outer two have a LOT more.   Carbs are all set exactly the same but I run K&N Pods.   I knew when I changed over from airbox that there were pros and cons to this.  Higher air flow and they look super cool.  But not ideal in rain, and at highway speed you get the air vacuum imbalance issue  I can totally see it in full HD now that I see my valves.   Thinking about going back to airbox if this is the way it's going to be.  But got me wondering a crazy question, has anyone ever set up their outer two carbs diff than their inner two?  And if so was it a disaster or did it offset the air vaccum issue at highway speed?  My outer 2 are def running richer and wondering if a slightly diff (lower ) needle setting on Cyl 1 & 4 would make things even out in the wind?  My gut says no and this is a dumb question but it might be crazy enough that someone has tried it and had success?? 
anyway, back to cleaning valves . Cheers.  Steve

Green 79' KZ1000st engine-1075 Wiseco kit, k&n pods, dyna ig & coils, and very old Kerker 4 into 1 pipes
Other project- orig Red 79' KZ1000st engine-stock so far with mystery black 4/1 header TBD

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24 Jul 2022 22:59 #870967 by Wookie58

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25 Jul 2022 04:02 #870971 by hardrockminer
Replied by hardrockminer on topic Diff settings between Cyl 1&4 and 2&3
Carburetors are supposed to be synchronized.  KHI describes a bench synch that will get you close, but the only way to do it correctly is with vacum gauges on the carbs, on the bike and the bike running.  This allows you to equalize the pressure at the intake manifold.  Since the bike isn't in motion you might get a slight difference in pressure at highway speeds, but I doubt it will be much differrent.  

As a matter of interest, I once had a head totally carbon encrusted...never seen that much carbon on the valves and in the exhaust ports.  I think it was the head that's currently on my 1980 KZ1000.  It was off a '78.

I have several restored bikes along with a 2006 Goldwing with a sidecar. My wife has a 2019 Suzuki DR 650 for on and off road.

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26 Jul 2022 18:28 #871093 by mac0239
Replied by mac0239 on topic Diff settings between Cyl 1&4 and 2&3
Just read it. Glad I am not the only one that throws out an "unconventional " question on jetting.  ha ha.  I am not planning on trying it unless I hear convincing data that it works and doesn't cause issues.

Green 79' KZ1000st engine-1075 Wiseco kit, k&n pods, dyna ig & coils, and very old Kerker 4 into 1 pipes
Other project- orig Red 79' KZ1000st engine-stock so far with mystery black 4/1 header TBD

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26 Jul 2022 18:36 #871094 by mac0239
Replied by mac0239 on topic Diff settings between Cyl 1&4 and 2&3
Oh for sure, I use the guages and vacuum lines to sync my carbs always. Not too mention I keep them clean as heck.  But when you sync running the bike is stationary of course and highway speed air flow is not something you can adjust for, that I know anyways.  Sounds like I may have to make a choice. Stay with pods for the higher air input and asthetics or put my airbox back on and have consistent equal air flow to all cylinders regardless of speed, rain, etc.   The way it goes eh. cheers

Green 79' KZ1000st engine-1075 Wiseco kit, k&n pods, dyna ig & coils, and very old Kerker 4 into 1 pipes
Other project- orig Red 79' KZ1000st engine-stock so far with mystery black 4/1 header TBD

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28 Jul 2022 04:18 #871183 by joel
Replied by joel on topic Diff settings between Cyl 1&4 and 2&3
hi, to add to your question i have been messing with my carbs for a while now and also have noticed the outer cyl. running rich and carbony. i also have a 1979 kz1000 with k=n filters, i have had to adjust the mixture differently on the outer carbs than the inner carbs to get a better idle. i would assume, that if you could read the outer cylinders plug or measure the air fuel ratio on each cyl. that would be nice, it would be a good thing to set them up differently, probably idle jet size for a little help in the transition stage. it should still sync/balance properly and keep all cyl. burning clean.. i have been an outboard mechanic for over 25 years and i have noticed inner cylinders on the inline 6 mercs were always picky, that turned out to be a matter of cooling. so maybe the problem could be the fact that the inner 2 cyl dont get as much air flow running hotter to keep the carbon down....pure speculation. but thought i'd blab to you. good luck.
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28 Jul 2022 05:38 - 28 Jul 2022 07:11 #871187 by zed1015
Replied by zed1015 on topic Diff settings between Cyl 1&4 and 2&3
Cylinders externally running hotter or colder in normal operation is heat dissipation related  not jetting related when all the carbs are jetted the same and the carbs and engine are all functioning correctly .
Richening the middle cylinders won't shed the heat faster or make a significant difference in temps but will just run richer, waste fuel and lose power and leaning the outers is asking for trouble.
Any rogue cylinders showing signs of richness or sooting will be down to other causes such as oil burning mistaken for overfueling, leaking choke plungers, blocked or partially blocked choke air bleed, mal adjusted or worn mixure screws or leaking internal 'o' rings on the needle jet tubes etc etc.
Lean running , air leaks, partially blocked jets etc etc.
The reason some engines are jetted different on the middle or outer cylinders has nothing to do with cylinder temps but down to airbox design where differing airflow to inner and outer cylinders needs to be compensated for.
This results in the same fuel mixture strength (a/f ratio)  being delivered to each cylinder and not some running richer  or leaner than others.
You could compare this to running an airbox on two of the cylinders and pods or stacks on the other pair.
To attain the correct mixture on all four cylinders the podded pair would need jetting richer in their carbs to deliver the same A/F ratio as the airboxed pair and non of the cylinders would be running any richer or leaner than the others...

As for running pods mac0239 , I run pods and open stacks on all my bikes and non of them require different jetting on any of the carbs , have differing carbon build up on any of the valves or any cylinder showing signs of richer or leaner running that the others.
I suggest you have issues elsewhere as mentioned above causing that.

 

AIR CORRECTOR JETS FOR VM CARBS AND ETHANOL RESISTANT VITON CHOKE PLUNGER SEAL REPLACMENT FOR ALL CLASSIC AND MODERN MOTORCYCLE CARBURETTORS
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Last edit: 28 Jul 2022 07:11 by zed1015.
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