Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

02 May 2018 09:51 - 02 May 2018 13:21
#782727
How shall I perform a WOT test after 100 miles?

low float level = was checked earlier, will check again.
bad plug = almost new (changed after the startup 1-2 weeks ago
Coil = only used one season
plug cables = only used one season.

I was out working on the bike today, I discovered a problem with the pet stock (vacuum type). I need to blow air to get it closing.
I cannot start up the bike before I have fixed these.

I took photos of the spark plug today, they are now from the startup of the engine 1-2 weeks ago.

Cylinder 1:


Cylinder 2:


Cylinder 3:


Cylinder 4:



When I got the petstock working and can start up the engine, will it be a good idea to use start gas around the inlet to sett if the RPM change
to see if the block is taking in fake air from somewhere, maybe I have a leak in the carb holders ? Try to determine the problem when you go off idling?
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Last edit: 02 May 2018 13:21 by gordone.

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

02 May 2018 17:16
#782742
Plugs 2 & 4 are way too rich.

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

02 May 2018 18:48 - 02 May 2018 18:50
#782748
Not burning as they should. There's your clue. ;)
Steve
Last edit: 02 May 2018 18:50 by SWest.

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

02 May 2018 22:42 - 03 May 2018 01:39
#782753
Todo List:
1. Get the petcock working properly.

2. Figure out why 2 & 4 is to reach, properly the air / mix screw incorrect position, can be something else?
Is there a big possibility these is the reason for the off idle problem also?
Can these also be the problem with middle range?
Is there any problem cleaning the spark plugs with patrol, so its easier to see what happens when I take them out after start up?

I have order a new petcock (OEM), but it will take 1-2 weeks, hope I can get it with express... want to continue these faultfinding/tuning...
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
Last edit: 03 May 2018 01:39 by gordone.

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

06 May 2018 08:47
#782953
While waiting for the new petcock you could cap off the vac port on #2 carb and the petcock and run the petcock on the mid position "prime" to get fuel flow. Since you have new plug wires and its 2 and 4 cyl that too rich (2 and 4 cyl run off of different coils) there is a good chance the coils and wires are ok.

I see you painted the carbs....... I'm leaning towards a partly plugged channel in the carbs for the choke, pilot or air. Nessium is big on soaking them in carb dip after removing everything along with o rings and see if you can search for Patton's procedure on holding certain air passages while blowing through others (with high pressure ) to get more force through them. You will probably need a strong compressor and not just the spray from a can of carb cleaner.

I know you've done this and its a lot of work and I hate to be wrong but I'm thinking things are pointing in that direction still. Hoping OTHERS will chime in on the idea. Baldy runs a 810 kit with a step bigger cam and head (GPZ) and runs a #15 pilot ..... do you have this size (stock) that would have came with em for the 650. Always seemed to lean for me but he swears by em. Not sure about trying this just a idea.
1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

06 May 2018 08:58 - 06 May 2018 08:59
#782955
KZB2 650 wrote: While waiting for the new petcock you could cap off the vac port on #2 carb and the petcock and run the petcock on the mid position "prime" to get fuel flow. Since you have new plug wires and its 2 and 4 cyl that too rich (2 and 4 cyl run off of different coils) there is a good chance the coils and wires are ok.

I see you painted the carbs....... I'm leaning towards a partly plugged channel in the carbs for the choke, pilot or air. Nessium is big on soaking them in carb dip after removing everything along with o rings and see if you can search for Patton's procedure on holding certain air passages while blowing through others (with high pressure ) to get more force through them. You will probably need a strong compressor and not just the spray from a can of carb cleaner.

I know you've done this and its a lot of work and I hate to be wrong but I'm thinking things are pointing in that direction still. Hoping OTHERS will chime in on the idea. Baldy runs a 810 kit with a step bigger cam and head (GPZ) and runs a #15 pilot ..... do you have this size (stock) that would have came with em for the 650. Always seemed to lean for me but he swears by em. Not sure about trying this just a idea.

Thank you.
I will see if I do what or just wait. The carbs was painted before last season so I was driving the whole last season without any problems with the carbs.
If I understand you correct, wrong position on the air/mix screw cannot cause these problem with plug 2 and 3 ?

If these is correct the air mix screw is not the problem, I agree with you, since all the electrical should be okay and the jet size is the same.
Can I clean the plugs with petrol? I want to clean them and then test drive and take a look...

Incorrect float height (Bowl) cannot make these problem? I should have different problems then ?
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine
Last edit: 06 May 2018 08:59 by gordone.

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

06 May 2018 09:16
#782957
Too high of a float level could cause this and you should be able to clean the plugs up some what..... When I fouled a couple last summer while doing the smooth bore carbs I could not get em to clean out and needed to replace em..... having read of this happening to a few others but it was a first for me over many years. Since they clean out and run good after off idle they are still probably ok to run...... did you ever try 1 and 1/4 turns out on the air screws...... that's about were they come from the factory and might give you a better starting point ??
1978 KZ650 b-2
700cc Wiseco kit 10 to 1.
1980 KZ750 cam, ape springs, stock clutch/ Barnett springs.
Vance and Hines Header w/ comp baffle and Ape pods, Dyna S and green coils, copper wires.
29MM smooth bores W/ 17.5 pilots, 0-6s and 117.5 main
16/42 gearing X ring chain and alum rear JT sprocket.

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

06 May 2018 12:18
#782964
I'd check the H/T leads coming from the coils. Might be a bad connection on those two.
Steve

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

06 May 2018 22:41
#782996
SWest wrote: I'd check the H/T leads coming from the coils. Might be a bad connection on those two.
Steve

Connection of the spark cable out from the coil?
I will check, I was not checking them when I installed the coils these year, they was just on from last year. will do.
Good point.
KZB2 650 wrote: Too high of a float level could cause this and you should be able to clean the plugs up some what..... When I fouled a couple last summer while doing the smooth bore carbs I could not get em to clean out and needed to replace em..... having read of this happening to a few others but it was a first for me over many years. Since they clean out and run good after off idle they are still probably ok to run...... did you ever try 1 and 1/4 turns out on the air screws...... that's about were they come from the factory and might give you a better starting point ??
I understand, I the problem is the petstock will not close after been opned up by the vaackum, so I don`t like to using it....
If some gas should leak...
I will try the 1 and 1/4 out when I got the new petstock, but I will check today what setting all four has today and report back.

Summary:
1. Check cable out from the coil.
2. Test air mix screw 1 and 1/4
3. Check bowl height.

Hopefully will I be able to check these during these week.
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

07 May 2018 10:06
#783016
I have checked the air screw, it was 1 turn out on all four carbs.
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

17 May 2018 12:03
#783555
I have cleaned the plug and was running for 1,5-2 hours yesterday. Today have I taken out the plugs for investigation, please see picture below.
The only thing I have done on the engine since last time we was checking the plug is the bolts for the carb. holders, now I`m 100% sure the hose clamp are tighten.

When I was out driving I was thinking these it maybe good enough for a while, have some fun on the bike the next week, and then try to optimize more...
I have a feeling its better now then before, but I still have problem with the middle range and off idle, the off idle is maybe some better now.
But the bike is good enough to be used, but not perfect, lets say 80% ? will try to get to 90%....

If you look at the picture I will say all looks good accept for the cylinder 2 ?
I have new plugs, new coils, and new plug cabels, I have good power on the coils almost the same as on the battery.
I have not tested using start gas when the bike is running looking for leaks on the carb holders....

Cylinder 1:


Cylinder 2:


Cylinder 3:


Cylinder 4:
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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Re: Help needed. 81 KZ650-D4 w 81 KZ750-4 (Wiensco 810 big bore) engine & VM24

19 May 2018 13:19
#783681
Today have I been out driven the whole day, and it looks like I have misunderstood the issue earlier or maybe the the problem has only change.
What I have observed today is that the problem we have talked about in middle range of throttle not are correct any longer.
The problem is related tot he RPM, from 5k you can sometimes feel it, but after 6k you can feel it... the engine is cheating....
You feel it more in deep hill. When the problem is active and you give much more throttle and the bike start to acc. further it disappear, you only feel it when you try to keep a steady RPM.

I think the problem is the needle height? rise one step?
1981 KZ650-D4, with 1981 z750L engine (Wiensco 810 big bore).

Project:
www.kzrider.com/forum/11-projects/607213...sr-1981-z750l-engine

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