KZ440 no start, no matter what

Nebr_Rex wrote: Compression , fuel, spark which one are you missing?
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150/143 psi, bright blue, and enough to get the plugs wet if I keep cranking. That's why I asked about checking the cam timing in the first post. Any way to verify that it hasn't jumped without pulling the big valve cover?

Thanks to everyone for the replies btw. I really need this thing running.

Go ahead and pull the rocker box to check cam timing.
Just a bunch of bolts. Remove and reinstall, it will not change
anything on the engine.


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Hexadecimus wrote: lack of ignition.

bingo

Nebr_Rex wrote:

Hexadecimus wrote: lack of ignition.

bingo

I don't mean spark, btw. I already know it isn't igniting even with a strong blue spark, but the question is why. I haven't seen an engine so far off timing that it wouldn't fire, but I'll open the cam cover today. I'm out of other things to try.

Old plugs can spark out of the engine, under load they won't. As I said before, try new plugs.
Steve

swest wrote: Old plugs can spark out of the engine, under load they won't. As I said before, try new plugs.
Steve

I did. That's why I have 3 sets of plugs for these bikes instead of 2 now, and what's why I tested them in the 400 just to triple check. All 3 sets run great in the kz400.

Cam and sprocket mark at TDC attached. Looks good to me.

Hexadecimus wrote: Cam and sprocket mark at TDC attached. Looks good to me.

To me it looks like the cam is installed 180 degrees out. Take a look at the 1st image below. It shows how the cam should be installed. Then look at the 2nd image below that shows your cam. Is yours installed with the timing arrow facing the rear instead of front when the crankshaft is at TDC? Ed

Ed, the cam being 180° out, that's not really a possibility if you think about it. The crank is at TDC and the cam rotates twice per cam revolution, and the cam only determines whether that's at the beginning of the power or intake stroke. If you rotate the crankshaft one revolution the the T mark again, the camshaft will rotate 180° from where it previously was...

As far as the sprocket itself, from what I've read, it's impossible to misalign because the bolt holes are not mirrored exactly so they only align one way.

Hexadecimus wrote: Ed, the cam being 180° out, that's not really a possibility if you think about it. The crank is at TDC and the cam rotates twice per cam revolution, and the cam only determines whether that's at the beginning of the power or intake stroke. If you rotate the crankshaft one revolution the the T mark again, the camshaft will rotate 180° from where it previously was...

As far as the sprocket itself, from what I've read, it's impossible to misalign because the bolt holes are not mirrored exactly so they only align one way.

You are correct.
If the timing mark is on the 'T' on the ignition advancer you are at TDC on number 2 cylinder.

If the engine does not fire on either you have no spark caused by something not letting those itty-bitty electrons
flow thru them wires.


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Did you by chance remove the mechanical advancer unit? It's possible you put it back on 180 degrees off, if you did. Happens on the 750 twins often. I ditched my points and went to and electronic ignition.

If you haven't removed the advancer, I'd recommend taking it off, cleaning and greasing it and making sure it moves freely before reinstalling.


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Nebr_Rex wrote: You are correct.
If the timing mark is on the 'T' on the ignition advancer you are at TDC on number 2 cylinder.

If the engine does not fire on either you have no spark caused by something not letting those itty-bitty electrons
flow thru them wires.
.

I triple checked that it has a good spark.

Armaundk wrote: Did you by chance remove the mechanical advancer unit? It's possible you put it back on 180 degrees off, if you did. Happens on the 750 twins often. I ditched my points and went to and electronic ignition.

If you haven't removed the advancer, I'd recommend taking it off, cleaning and greasing it and making sure it moves freely before reinstalling.


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It wasn't off since the bike last ran. I did remove and clean it, and it seems fine. The springs return correctly. And there's only one way for the points style advancer to slide on. I wish I had the electronic like my previous Kz440 since I already have the igniter box, but I haven't found the advanced/cam assembly reasonbly priced.

I still wonder if it isn't in the carbs somewhere. I think it's receiving too much fuel rather than just being flooded from not igniting. Everything looks clean, jets appear to be stock, fuel levels are at +3 to 5 mm, and float valves are sealing. Eberyone who has looked at it is stumped though. If I can find something small enough, I'll try to gauge the jets to see if they've been drilled. Still seems like it should start though...

Nearly blocking off the intake entirely introduced enough drag to keep the starter from kicking back like in that video. Seems like way more restriction than the stock air box can provide though.