Outside rich inside lean! Help

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02 Nov 2014 10:09 #652629 by jmoney05
Outside rich inside lean! Help was created by jmoney05
The two outer cylinders and very rich while the inner two are fine. VM26 s on a 1978 kz 650 D
What could cause this? Any input is welcome,

1978 Kz650D

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  • 4TheKZ1000
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02 Nov 2014 12:00 - 02 Nov 2014 12:48 #652635 by 4TheKZ1000
Replied by 4TheKZ1000 on topic Outside rich inside lean! Help
could be a vacuum leak at the carb bodies.

could be a bad rubber intake boot. They can dry out, rot and crack letting air in creating a lean condition.

Lean is caused by two methods.
1. to much air to fuel. Proper fuel flow / to much air.
2. not enough fuel. Proper air flow / restriction of fuel / not enough fuel.
Last edit: 02 Nov 2014 12:48 by 4TheKZ1000.

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02 Nov 2014 12:59 #652640 by kaw-a-holic
Replied by kaw-a-holic on topic Re:Outside rich inside lean! Help
Does it have pods? PO may have put larger jets on outside carbs to compensate a lean condition caused by the amount of air on outside carbs.

Jon
1977 KZ1000a1
Mesa, AZ
Phoenix Fighter Project

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02 Nov 2014 18:36 - 02 Nov 2014 18:37 #652678 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic Outside rich inside lean! Help

jmoney05 wrote: The two outer cylinders and very rich while the inner two are fine. VM26 s on a 1978 kz 650 D
What could cause this? Any input is welcome,


If not already done, would assure correct fuel levels by performing the clear tube test.

Incorrect fuel level can result in too lean or too rich mixture in an otherwise perfect carb.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Last edit: 02 Nov 2014 18:37 by Patton.
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02 Nov 2014 18:38 #652679 by jmoney05
Replied by jmoney05 on topic Re:Outside rich inside lean! Help
The bike does have pods, I'm sure there is no vac leaks. The inside plugs look decent the outside plugs are solid black.
The bike was running so rich that my oil was getting contaminated and all four plugs were solid black. So I changed the oil and put new plugs.
I had the carbs off and changed the jets ( they were all the same ) from 117.5 I jetted down to 115 and also put new needle and seats, and now is my current situation with the outside cylinders plugs reading solid black.
The bike runs a lot better since re-jetting but is still way off.

1978 Kz650D

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02 Nov 2014 18:39 - 02 Nov 2014 18:40 #652680 by jmoney05
Replied by jmoney05 on topic Outside rich inside lean! Help
I will check the fuel levels ASAP ,if this is my problem shud be an easy fix.

1978 Kz650D
Last edit: 02 Nov 2014 18:40 by jmoney05.

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02 Nov 2014 18:46 #652683 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic Re:Outside rich inside lean! Help

jmoney05 wrote: ... bike was running so rich that my oil was getting contaminated ....

Often results from a leaking float valve, accompanied by an imperfectly functioning overflow circuit.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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03 Nov 2014 06:05 #652731 by martin_csr
Replied by martin_csr on topic Re:Outside rich inside lean! Help

jmoney05 wrote: The bike does have pods, I'm sure there is no vac leaks. The inside plugs look decent the outside plugs are solid black.
The bike was running so rich that my oil was getting contaminated and all four plugs were solid black. So I changed the oil and put new plugs.
I had the carbs off and changed the jets ( they were all the same ) from 117.5 I jetted down to 115 and also put new needle and seats, and now is my current situation with the outside cylinders plugs reading solid black.
The bike runs a lot better since re-jetting but is still way off.

Are they oily black or sooty black?
What ignition system is on the bike & does it have the stock coils?
I'm thinking it might be poor spark, possibly from a bad 1-4 coil.
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03 Nov 2014 07:21 - 03 Nov 2014 07:35 #652741 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic Re:Outside rich inside lean! Help
Observed fat blue sparks on new correct plugs would indicate -- but not guarantee -- that the ignition system is okay. (With plugs removed and grounded against the engine head, spin over the engine to observe the spark quality on each plug.)

While there might also be an ignition issue, gasoline intrusion into the crankcase likely resulted from a carb problem.
The scenario is that raw gasoline rises up into the carb bore and is sucked into the combustion chamber, from where it then blows out the exhaust and/or washes down around the pistons and rings into the crankcase. Under such condition -- basically flooded -- , the cylinder likely fails to combust. And the spark plug gets dripping wet with raw gasoline.

Hopefully, the new float valves have remedied the issue of gasoline intrusion into the crankcase.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD
Last edit: 03 Nov 2014 07:35 by Patton.

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03 Nov 2014 07:50 #652744 by Patton
Replied by Patton on topic Re:Outside rich inside lean! Help
Sometimes the clear-tube test indicates that gasoline rises way too high inside the carb, perhaps higher than the overflow tube (likely resulting from an obstructed overflow circuit).

In any event, would also assure that the overflow circuits are clean and clear. Because a new perfectly functioning float valve may later start leaking (for whatever reason), and when that happens, the overflow circuit needs to be working.

Good Fortune! :)

1973 Z1
KZ900 LTD

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06 Nov 2014 05:42 #653023 by jmoney05
Replied by jmoney05 on topic Re:Outside rich inside lean! Help
Plugs are sooty black,will check the spark as well,just no time to get in the garage till the weekend, you all are such great help with all the ideas,experience, and know how, for that I am gratefull.

1978 Kz650D

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