'80 KZ440 LTD with pods - Am I doomed?

Hi,

The PO of my bike ditched the airbox and went with pods. He rejetted the carbs, but I suspect that they're not setup right. I hear the hue and cry about the almighty airbox, and I'm tempted to try to track one down, but then I'd have to rejet back to stock, etc etc... If the mixture is right and the synch is good (which I'm working on, can I hope to have success dialing this 440 in?

Thanks!

Anything is possible. The infinite monkey theorem states that a monkey hitting keys at random on a typewriter keyboard for an infinite amount of time will almost surely type a given text, such as the complete works of William Shakespeare. <JK>

The_Raven wrote: Hi,

The PO of my bike ditched the airbox and went with pods. He rejetted the carbs, but I suspect that they're not setup right. I hear the hue and cry about the almighty airbox, and I'm tempted to try to track one down, but then I'd have to rejet back to stock, etc etc... If the mixture is right and the synch is good (which I'm working on, can I hope to have success dialing this 440 in?

Thanks!

Use the search feature, type "pods" and you will now have a year's worth of reading on the hotly contested dabate of pods vs. airbox. Then you need to make a choice that fit's your needs, and level of carb tuning experience.

The_Raven wrote: Hi, The PO of my bike ditched the airbox and went with pods. He rejetted the carbs, but I suspect that they're not setup right. I hear the hue and cry about the almighty airbox, and I'm tempted to try to track one down, but then I'd have to rejet back to stock, etc etc... If the mixture is right and the synch is good (which I'm working on, can I hope to have success dialing this 440 in? Thanks!

KZ440 carbs are reportedly very dependent on the air box, more so than most other KZ models.

There are numerous posts lamenting the tuning difficulties with pods on KZ440, but can't recall any post reporting a successful application.

The basic carb tuning problem with pods seems to center on achieving an acceptable air/fuel mixture throughout the entire carb range.

Good Fortune!

.

Arrggh... I've contacted the PO to see if he might still have the box. After reading the article linked above, I realize that I didn't take into account the variables of crosswinds and rain, beyond just tuning of the carbs for proper airflow across the RPM range. That's a whole other ballgame.

In reality though, this is going to be more of an around-town bike anyway, I've got the Widowmaker 1100 for the highway running, and that has an reasonably stock intake setup, not that it isn't all screwed up too... But that's the next project.

The_Raven wrote: Arrggh... I've contacted the PO to see if he might still have the box. After reading the article linked above, I realize that I didn't take into account the variables of crosswinds and rain, beyond just tuning of the carbs for proper airflow across the RPM range. That's a whole other ballgame.

In reality though, this is going to be more of an around-town bike anyway, I've got the Widowmaker 1100 for the highway running, and that has an reasonably stock intake setup, not that it isn't all screwed up too... But that's the next project.

Here's a few leads somewhat local to you (im live just north of Haverhill)

www.argocycles.com/

www.used-motorcycle-parts.org/state.php?state=Massachusetts

www.seacoastcycle.com/

OK, so here's the deal...

I spent the day with my friend and bike mechanic, and we got a bunch of stuff done; put the front wheel (with fresh rubber) on, cleaned and adjusted the chain, swapped out the plugs, put in fresh gas, changed the oil, etc...

Along with all that, we synched the carbs, made sure all the boots and pods were on tight, adjusted the mixture screws to 1 3/4 turns from seated to compensate for the pod filters. When the engine is cold, the idle is great, the throttle response is fine. No choke required to start, engine has good power.

But when the engine gets hot, the idle starts to creep up to around 3K or more, if you fiddle with the idle adjustment, it's OK, then starts to creep up again. Could this be caused by a lean condition that gets worse as the bike gets hotter?

Here's my options, as I see them. What do you all think is the best?

1. Get the airbox plus all the rubber bits, mounting brackets, filter, etc. My guess is this would run around $200 all said and done, assuming I can find all the parts? Then I reset the needle and mixture screw to the factory settings, and hope it all works.

2. Get a jet kit and rejet the carbs to enrich the mixture, and stick with the pods.

3. Get pod filters with an element, be it paper or foam or whatever, to affect the lean condition. The pods I have now have nothing but some coarse wire mesh, I might as well be running wide open bores, there's really no restriction.

4. Sell the bike at a loss since it's not running right, regardless of the fact that everything else is perfect.

Whaddyathink?

My vote? Option 1. Eliminate a bunch of variables and try to establish a baseline based on stock specs.

The_Raven wrote: ...made sure all the boots and pods were on tight...idle starts to creep up to around 3K or more, if you fiddle with the idle adjustment, it's OK, then starts to creep up again. Could this be caused by a lean condition that gets worse as the bike gets hotter?...Whaddyathink?

Old boots (i.e., carb holders) may leak, regardless of being on tight.
Would suspect a vacuum leak.

May test for vacuum leak with engine at idle, spray WD40 over the carb holders, and watch for change in rpm or increased smoke from the exhaust, either of which will indicate ingestion of WD40 (hence undesirable ingestion of outside air).

Of course, there are other possible air leak sources besides the carb holders.
Would also spray the WD40 over the vacuum nipple plugs (caps), and any other vacuum hoses such as a hose supplying vacuum to a petcock.

If not already done, would also assure spark plugs are the correct heat range per factory specs.

Perhaps the timing advancer is reluctant to return to its normal retarded position at idle rpm.
Would assure the timing advancer is correctly functioning, and not sticking or hanging.
It may require lube, or both cleaning and lube.
With engine running, and using a strobe type timing light, assure the advance quickly moves back and forth as rpm is varied by blipping the throttle.

Sometimes a throttle cable will be too tight, kinked, frayed inside, infested with gunge inside the handlebar connection, or otherwise maladjusted.
Or perhaps the carb return spring is too weak.
Or maybe the throttle connection mechanism at the carb is rubbing or hitting against something that prevents the carb from fully closing.

Good Fortune!

Patton wrote:

The_Raven wrote: ...made sure all the boots and pods were on tight...idle starts to creep up to around 3K or more, if you fiddle with the idle adjustment, it's OK, then starts to creep up again. Could this be caused by a lean condition that gets worse as the bike gets hotter?...Whaddyathink?

Old boots (i.e., carb holders) may leak, regardless of being on tight.
Would suspect a vacuum leak.

May test for vacuum leak with engine at idle, spray WD40 over the carb holders, and watch for change in rpm or increased smoke from the exhaust, either of which will indicate ingestion of WD40 (hence undesirable ingestion of outside air).

Of course, there are other possible air leak sources besides the carb holders.
Would also spray the WD40 over the vacuum nipple plugs (caps), and any other vacuum hoses such as a hose supplying vacuum to a petcock.

If not already done, would also assure spark plugs are the correct heat range per factory specs.

Perhaps the timing advancer is reluctant to return to its normal retarded position at idle rpm.
Would assure the timing advancer is correctly functioning, and not sticking or hanging.
It may require lube, or both cleaning and lube.
With engine running, and using a strobe type timing light, assure the advance quickly moves back and forth as rpm is varied by blipping the throttle.

Sometimes a throttle cable will be too tight, kinked, frayed inside, infested with gunge inside the handlebar connection, or otherwise maladjusted.
Or perhaps the carb return spring is too weak.
Or maybe the throttle connection mechanism at the carb is rubbing or hitting against something that prevents the carb from fully closing.

Good Fortune!

Good point on the alternate vacuum sources, we tried the boots with WD to no avail but not the other points you mentioned. Also haven't checked the timing advance mechanism. We'll do that and see what we get.

Looking around for an airbox, it looks like this was a 1-year part specific to the '80 KZ440A and D, can anyone confirm that? Also, the air cleaner (again, specific to the '80 440A and Ds) are apparently made of unobtainium? :ohmy:

Looks like I bought a bag 'o trouble...

The_Raven wrote: "Looking around for an airbox, it looks like this was a 1-year part specific to the '80 KZ440A and D, can anyone confirm that? Also, the air cleaner (again, specific to the '80 440A and Ds) are apparently made of unobtainium?"

I'm not sure where you got your information, but take a look at the parts diagrams on Kawasaki.com and check my findings. I may be wrong, but it looks like your air box & related parts were shared across the following 10 models and the filter element (part #11013-1027) is still available for about $6.50:

Model (10):
KZ440-A1 (LTD) (1980)
KZ440-A2 (LTD) (1981)
KZ440-A3 (LTD) (1982)
KZ440-A4 (LTD) (1983)
KZ440-D1 (LTD Belt) (1980)
KZ440-D2 (LTD Belt) (1981)
KZ440-D3 (LTD Belt) (1981)
KZ440-D4 (LTD Belt) (1982)
KZ440-D5 (LTD Belt) (1983)
KZ440-G1 (1982)