KZ 1000 LTD " NIght Mare "

1980 KZ 1000 LTD ..Carbs are 120 / 2 pumpers..5cn29 needles ,2.0 slides, 20 pj's ,screws out 1 turn , 132.5 mj's..Elev @
6500 - 7500 above sea level..engine is stock with exception of K&N pods and Kerker pipe w/comp baffle.
I had no idea what the stock jetting was cause someone else had been in these carbs...Well, I have jetted on this thing till I'm blue in the face and it's still lean..could the spacers on the needle be in the wrong position ?...I put them back like I found them , thick on top and thin on bottom..Can not find any pic's to check if this is right!....Thanks anyone !:sick:

If no luck here: try www.wgcarbs.com If he has time, he might help you.

120/2 pumpers? What sort of carbs are those? Never heard of them called that. Otherwise, from the other information, sounds to me like you are way rich! At that elevation, the air is thinner then sea level so you should need leaner jets then stock. Beings there isn't as much oxygen you don't need as much fuel. If I had a better idea what carbs those are and the size, it would be easier to figure out.

Thanks racer54 for your in put...Seems no matter how much fuel is going in it would show on the plugs...plugs don't lie !...I'm thinking , for a stock engine this thing sure is taking a lot!..lol..These carbs have an accelerator pump on them to delete a stumble upon acceleration..supposedly they had a lean mixture from the factory..I guess one of Kawasaki's better Ideas!..Ha !

dragbikewillie wrote: 1980 KZ 1000 LTD ..Carbs are 120 / 2 pumpers..5cn29 needles ,2.0 slides, 20 pj's ,screws out 1 turn , 132.5 mj's..Elev @
6500 - 7500 above sea level..engine is stock with exception of K&N pods and Kerker pipe w/comp baffle.
I had no idea what the stock jetting was cause someone else had been in these carbs...Well, I have jetted on this thing till I'm blue in the face and it's still lean..could the spacers on the needle be in the wrong position ?...I put them back like I found them , thick on top and thin on bottom..Can not find any pic's to check if this is right!....Thanks anyone !:sick:

Those needles are fixed position needles [no grooves to adjust the clip] and that's precisely where your lean problem is coming from. I've seen this several times over the years with those particular carbs.

Those carbs were ultra lean jetted in the midrange. O-1 needle jets. You want needles from pretty much any of the earlier models that were adjustable. A good all around needle would be 5DL31. That's the same needles that came in the 29 smoothbore Mikuni's and also the 77 LTD1000 OEM 26mm carbs but with O-6 & O-5 needle jets, respectively.

You can keep putting main jet to it and it won't cure the problem because the fuel restriction is downstream of the main jet

For now, shim your needles up with 2mm worth of washers. Make sure the thin plastic washer is on the bottom and the thick one on the top. Also make sure the spring is in place under the needle. The plugs should come around. NOTE, the fuel doesn't color up a plug as easily these days also...

Forget the electrode insulator for color. Look at the base ring of the plug. The very bottom of the threads that's exposed to the chamber. Watch for that to color up. Light grey all the way around is ideal but you may only get coloring on portions of it early on.



Larry C

Thanks Larry !...Glad to know I got the spacers right any way!..lol..Just out of curiosity would you know what the stock jetting is on these carbs?..BTW what do you think about my PJ & setting,even after I put in the shims?..I guess with this kind of pipe and pods it needs fuel huh?...Damn pump gas sure can mess things up!..lol..that needle you described will it make it crisper..Seems the more fuel I dump the more sluggish it gets!...This bike belongs to a customer and he's pretty anal about noise.
I had a 120 mj in before and at a steady 5000 rpm you could bearly hear the pipe crackel like it was to lean thats when I started adding more fuel ...Thanks for the info for sure!...I'm not much on these old carbs but I tell ya I'm sure getting a good learn'n !...lol


Bill

"The man knows his shit"......Listen and learn.......just my useless .02.....i don't come around much anymore, but i know excellent advice when i see it....

dragbikewillie wrote: Thanks Larry !...Glad to know I got the spacers right any way!..lol..Just out of curiosity would you know what the stock jetting is on these carbs?..BTW what do you think about my PJ & setting,even after I put in the shims?..I guess with this kind of pipe and pods it needs fuel huh?...Damn pump gas sure can mess things up!..lol..that needle you described will it make it crisper..Seems the more fuel I dump the more sluggish it gets!...This bike belongs to a customer and he's pretty anal about noise.
I had a 120 mj in before and at a steady 5000 rpm you could bearly hear the pipe crackel like it was to lean thats when I started adding more fuel ...Thanks for the info for sure!...I'm not much on these old carbs but I tell ya I'm sure getting a good learn'n !...lol


Bill

Stock is 15 pilot and 102.5 main in a B4 LTD with those carbs. Slides are a 2.0 Do a design fuel level check on them if you haven't already. That really needs to be right to get jetting to fall into place and make sense. That's the check where you actually see the fuel level in the bowls. Float height doesn't mean much.

If it's popping on deceleration you can try a tad more fuel with the pilot fuel screws....say 1/4 turn richer to start. If you get to where you have to make the low speed too rich with the fuel screws to clean up the popping, then go to a 17.5 pilot and rework the fuel screws leaner.

Main will probably need at least a 120. A good ballpark setup would be this.

17.5 pilots [you can keep your 20's in for now and see how they work out..might like them]
Shim the needles up 2mm
125 Main Jet
1/2 turn out on pilot fuel screws

When you nail the needle clip position, you'll feel it get a lot more responsive when you blip the throttle from idle to 3000 RPM. If it's the least bit sluggish there, it will probably be lean when you ride it.

Another nice option is to pull the screens out of the airbox, put a clamp on K&N in place of the silencer tail section of the airbox. Put in 17.5 pilots and about a 110 main jet. But ultimately / unfortunately, you still have to keep grinding away till you nail what that particular engine with that particular pipe likes best Plus....I'm sure the customer want's the pods because "they're better" :woohoo:

Keith How have you been? Good to hear from you again.....

edited

larry,
i have been well...i will PM my GPZ issue that developed last weekend.....po,ed to say the least..........

Thanks Larry! I'll go ahead and put the 120's back in with the shims..Also,it doesn't have an air box..it has the K&N pods..I did forget to tell you that I did set the fuel level at 3mm..I had read between 2-4mm and 3 was recommended..and also the slide height is set at 1mm..your opinion plz !..I did check the plugs again after what you told me and seems the anti seize covered the threads so I'm looking just b4 the threads which is almost a gold or very light tan color...You on the forum regularly?..Just in case I have another issue..Thanks again for all the info..

dragbikewillie wrote: Thanks Larry! I'll go ahead and put the 120's back in with the shims..Also,it doesn't have an air box..it has the K&N pods..I did forget to tell you that I did set the fuel level at 3mm..I had read between 2-4mm and 3 was recommended..and also the slide height is set at 1mm..your opinion plz !..I did check the plugs again after what you told me and seems the anti seize covered the threads so I'm looking just b4 the threads which is almost a gold or very light tan color...You on the forum regularly?..Just in case I have another issue..Thanks again for all the info..

I used to be....

I'll look today to see what needles I have. If I have 4 adjustable needles, I'll PM you. You can have them if I've got them. You can also find me here cavanaughracing.prophpbb.com/