needle position and location question

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needle position and location question

21 Mar 2011 17:59
#439475
first
i have done alot of carb rebuilding and i still to this day have never adjusted the needle Clip position..and am embarrassed to say i dont even know where it is located or what it even looks like to i can make the adjustment if needed..

can someone post a pic of it?

is it in the carb bowl with the needle as i assume from the discriptions of it and adjustments i read about...

thank you

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  • TeK9iNe
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Re: needle position and location question

21 Mar 2011 19:31
#439512
First of all. As a carb rebuilder - you're fired.

Secondly. The needle is atached to the slide, on the top half of the carb.

It is what pulls up and down with the throttle/input.

:laugh: :evil:
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79 Kawie Z1000 LTD
81 Kawie Z1000 CSR
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Re: needle position and location question

22 Mar 2011 23:38
#439829
fired......agreed

that now makes total sence as to location and what it is...

but still how is it adjusted....when its reffered to as stock setting is in the middle and u can adjust richer or leaner...

how is that adjusted?

and thanx...

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  • ravenz07
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Re: needle position and location question

23 Mar 2011 00:28
#439841
There are no adjustments for the needle that is on the slides.

Now are you referring to that needle or your fuel/air mixture screw?

Which bike are you asking for?
1994 Kawasaki KZ1000 Police
1980 Kawasaki KZ750 LTD
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Re: needle position and location question

23 Mar 2011 00:30
#439842
Nvm, I assume you are referring to the KZ750.

The fuel/air screws are on the top of the carb bodies and are made of brass, sometimes they are capped off. They are in front (as in the direction they would normally be on the bike) of the top hats.
1994 Kawasaki KZ1000 Police
1980 Kawasaki KZ750 LTD
1981 Yamaha XJ650H Maxim

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Re: needle position and location question

23 Mar 2011 12:55 - 23 Mar 2011 12:59
#439926
yea i do know the air screws pretty well...

i am just lost to what is meant when someone says something like this

" Would not change the jet needle clip position."

what are they reffering to is my question...

i have adjusted many jets/screws and whatnot..but some have reffered to adjusting the clip to richer or leaner and i dont know what that is..
some say "stock in the middle setting" and u can adjust up or down...whatis that and/or how.... and what/where is the clip?

thanx all
Last edit: 23 Mar 2011 12:59 by bgmrc.

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  • loudhvx
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Re: needle position and location question

23 Mar 2011 15:25 - 23 Mar 2011 15:45
#439946
There are at least three needles in most carbs:
Fuel inlet needle valve.
Air/fuel mixture screw needles.
Slide needle.

"Clip position" is meant for the slide needle. That (as was mentioned) is in the top part of the carb. Some needles are adjustable, some are not. The ones that are adjustable have multiple grooves cut into the top end where an e-clip snaps on. The ones that are not adjustable will have only one groove, or a permanently affixed clip.

Most carbs are such that raising the clip position lowers the needle, which makes things leaner. You can also put a shim washer on the bottom of the clip to raise the needle a half-step (richer). (Sometimes the needles are held in a way where the shimming is done on top of the e-clip instead of underneath it. In that case, adding a shim lowers the needle making things leaner.)

Sometimes, as in the case of the KZ550 Tk-22 carbs, there really isn't room for a shim in the needle-retaining assembly. You can force it in there, but you may possibly damage the needle or needle-jet due to capturing the needle ridgidly which leads to the needle scraping the needle-jet. The needle should have a slight amount of wiggle room, and almost no play up and down.

Here are some drawings of the needles for KZ550's. Note the stock U.S. one has only one groove and is not adjustable. The non-U.S. models had adjustable needles with 5 grooves. The Dynojet version of the needle has 6 grooves.

Clip positions are counted from the top of the needle.




Here is a drawing of how the needle relates to the main jet and slide.

Attachments:

Last edit: 23 Mar 2011 15:45 by loudhvx.
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Re: needle position and location question

23 Mar 2011 15:56
#439952
now i see...

clip is the area at the bottom of the slid and top of the needle...

now i understand....

thank you very much bud....

ill go a take a look at the carbs i have to fully get my head wraped around it and see if it has adjustment or not...

Thanks again!

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Re: needle position and location question

23 Mar 2011 16:02
#439953
Just to add to what loudhvx wrote,

The taper acts like a valve of sorts. When the needle is raised along with the slide, the main jet circuit gradually opens because of the taper. The taper(s) and straight sections on a needle can have different effects to the tunung of the engine. It's the link between the pilot jet and main jet.
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Re: needle position and location question

24 Mar 2011 00:19
#440058
I'm not sure if you guys can see the text on those drawings. I'm on a work computer and the second diagram is unreadable. Has anyone figured out a way to get the images to show up in the thread at full size?

I know you can drag and drop to the desktop and see it, but that gets old.

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  • Patton
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Re: needle position and location question

24 Mar 2011 01:34 - 24 Mar 2011 01:36
#440066
loudhvx wrote: I'm not sure if you guys can see the text on those drawings. I'm on a work computer and the second diagram is unreadable. Has anyone figured out a way to get the images to show up in the thread at full size?
I know you can drag and drop to the desktop and see it, but that gets old.

With Firefox, may use Control+ to increase screen size.

Thanks for the excellent drawings! :cheer:

Good Fortune! :)
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Last edit: 24 Mar 2011 01:36 by Patton.

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  • larrycavan
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Re: needle position and location question

24 Mar 2011 07:28
#440084
loudhvx wrote: There are at least three needles in most carbs:
Fuel inlet needle valve.
Air/fuel mixture screw needles.
Slide needle.

"Clip position" is meant for the slide needle. That (as was mentioned) is in the top part of the carb. Some needles are adjustable, some are not. The ones that are adjustable have multiple grooves cut into the top end where an e-clip snaps on. The ones that are not adjustable will have only one groove, or a permanently affixed clip.

Most carbs are such that raising the clip position lowers the needle, which makes things leaner. You can also put a shim washer on the bottom of the clip to raise the needle a half-step (richer). (Sometimes the needles are held in a way where the shimming is done on top of the e-clip instead of underneath it. In that case, adding a shim lowers the needle making things leaner.)

Sometimes, as in the case of the KZ550 Tk-22 carbs, there really isn't room for a shim in the needle-retaining assembly. You can force it in there, but you may possibly damage the needle or needle-jet due to capturing the needle ridgidly which leads to the needle scraping the needle-jet. The needle should have a slight amount of wiggle room, and almost no play up and down.

Here are some drawings of the needles for KZ550's. Note the stock U.S. one has only one groove and is not adjustable. The non-U.S. models had adjustable needles with 5 grooves. The Dynojet version of the needle has 6 grooves.

Clip positions are counted from the top of the needle.




Here is a drawing of how the needle relates to the main jet and slide.


THAT is some detailed, helpful information ;) I hope people realize the effort that went into that post....

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