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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 08 Mar 2011 09:53 #436159

  • jnymdnyt
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Okay, so this morning I woke up with a sore leg from trying to start the KZ yesterday. I know it's cold here in SF but D@%M! no one told me it was going to be that hard, the bike eventually started. So I've been told they are naturally cold blooded - I agree.

Should I change the oil?, should I put it in prime, should I buy a new starter (slips when cold but is fine after it warms up)?

The bike has been gone through by a reputable local motorcycle shop here in SF and runs great after I get it back but once I let it sit for a week it kinda goes in this I don't want to start mode. Anyone have the same issues?

Thanks in advance.
John Elago
San Francisco, CA.
1978 KZ650

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 08 Mar 2011 10:01 #436161

  • TeK9iNe
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I used to have the same issues... Heres what to do :)

Running a lighter weight oil like 5w40 helps.

Always put the petcock to prime before starting the bike. This fills the bowls up, replacing the evaporated fuel from sitting. My fuel lines are clear, and I put it to prime just after overnight, and it has to burble in a few seconds of gas.

If it is tuned correctly on the mix screws, it should start 2-3 kicks, reliably. Don't open the throttle, else you have to repeat the process - this defeats the starting circuit.
Just play with the choke - you know what position gives you the highest rpm when first cold, use that position. If you have only a 3 position slide choke, use the full out to start.

Good luck.

B)
Motorcycle Shop Owner/Operator

79 Kawie Z1000 LTD
81 Kawie Z1000 CSR
83 Honda VT750C A
85 Kawie GPZ900 A2
86 Zukie GS1150 EG
93 Yamie XV1100 E
Lucky to have rolled many old bikes through my doors ;)

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 08 Mar 2011 10:43 #436179

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Have you put larger idle jets in. My 650 E was also a cold starter until I cleaned the carbs and put larger jets in it. These bikes came set very lean from the factory. Many different problems can be causing your cold start. It needs a good battery and electrical system, proper timing and point gap, and good carburation. Take a day and clean all your electrical connections for good contact. These bikes are old and the brass corrodes and loses continuity. Get a manual and check the coils wire and charging system for proper operation. Put in new plugs and check compression, and adjust the valves. As I said it could be a number of things wrong. If my battery is low, it takes one kick and she starts up. Putting the petcock on prime, fills the carb as Tek9ine was saying. They do sometimes drain out, even over night. My bike was like yours, so the second year I owned it, I decided to go completely over it from front to rear. New tires wheels bearings, stem bearings,carb overhaul, new plugs, check valve clearance, compression, new sprockets and chain,cleaned all electrical connections etc. It took two weeks, but was well worth the time. Your bike will give you what ever you put into it. Good luck. Bob
Bob KZ 650 E1, En 450

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 08 Mar 2011 10:43 #436180

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I agree with the "don't open the throttle else you have to repeat the process - this defeats the starting circuit.
Just play with the choke" I would add to make sure that the choke/enricher passages are clean and working correctly. Further that there is the correct voltage at the coils. These should help with the cold start issue.
1977 KZ650 B1
Pods and Denco header


This is my Z

OLD KAW OWNERS SMILE ALOT

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 08 Mar 2011 21:14 #436411

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Two things.

1) Valves out of adjustment will 100% definitely contribute to hard-starting. If you have a feeler guage and shop manual and mechanical inclination you can do it yourself in 1 hour or less. Ask the shop if they checked valve adjustment. If not you definitely need to check. Hard-to-start, when I hear that, I think of 2 things if the bike was recently running 'okay' when warm: valve adjustment is the first thing that comes to mind.

2) and the second thing that comes to mind is the battery. The bike needs a fully charged battery to fire up well and to run right. One thing to check: in the morning when you usually start it up the first time, turn on the ignition and read the battery voltage with the ignition 'on' and before you start the engine. You need to see 10, 10.5 volts *minimum*.

If you are letting the bike sit 1 week between rides, and you do not have a 'battery maintainer' on the battery to keep it charged, and you're kickstarting (not using the electric start), *AND* the outside temp is cold -- you have the issue of batteries not putting out the same power when the temperature gets cold. I live in Silicon Valley, it is cold these days in the morning and I'm in the South Bay -- its gotta be colder 1 hour north of me where your at.


Plus batteries over the course of a week, especially if you have an older battery or a 'parasitic draw' in the harness somewhere that's using power when the bike's off, I'd get a battery maintainer hooked up to it. Check the fluid level and fill it to the 'Upper Level' line ONLY with distilled water, then charge it.

The way to get a known-good battery charge is this:

1) be aware that each of the 6 cells puts out 2.1 volts DC when fully charged.

2) so you should read between 12.55 and 12.65 volts when the battery is correctly charged.

3) BUT you need to wait about an hour after the battery's off the charger before checking. You will get a somewhat 'artificially high' voltage reading right after it comes off the charger that will settle in about an hour.

With a good battery and in-spec valve adjustment, since you've said 'it ran good a week ago' -- you may well be good to go.

I have a couple 650s and am about to do the valve adjustment myself on my '81 Kz650 CSR -- only 2 valves per cylinder, yay. Easy to do.
1978 kz1000 A2 with Kerker
1980 Z1 Classic with Kerker

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Last edit: by newOld_kz1000.

How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 08 Mar 2011 21:36 #436417

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is it kept in a garage? maybe toss one of those electric radiator heater things in the garage with it a couple hrs before you go to start it in the cold B)
posting from deep under a non-descript barn in an undisclosed location southwest of Omaha.

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 09 Mar 2011 22:20 #436688

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Thank you for all the feedback - much appreciated.

I started the bike this morning before I went to work and followed all your suggestions with the exception of changing oil (scheduled this weekend). It started in about 13 kicks, better than the last time. I noticed that putting it in prime, not opening the throttle, and playing with the choke really does the job. The battery is new so I suspect the timing could be off a little. We'll see after I change the oil, it's due anyway.

At least I'm not going to wake up with a sore leg tomorrow -thanks to all of you.
John Elago
San Francisco, CA.
1978 KZ650

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 10 Mar 2011 01:02 #436697

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Well we forgot to ask what year and model of Kz650 you have.

The year is really important to know because you may have electronic ignition. Here's how my 2 650s stand:

1979 Kz650 'D' model, aka "SR 650": points and condenser, and timing is set by moving the points plates

1981 Kz650 'H1' model, aka "CSR 650": electronic ignition, no points to adjust.

I think in 1980 the 650 switched from points to electronic ignition based on what I've read. The fact that you still have a kickstarter, unless a prior owner switched to an aftermarket electronic ignition, probably means that you still have points and condensers.

13 kicks on a good battery is not good. On a cold morning with a good battery and plugs gapped okay, clean carbs, *good valve clearances* it should take half that.

If you do have electronic ignition forget about setting the timing or the timing being 'off' as part of the 'hard to start' issue -- the timing can't be adjusted if you have electronic ignition.

Also, we forgot to ask -- how many miles are on the bike?
If the battery's good and the mileage is high -- get the valve clearances checked. Out-of-adjustment valves on a high-mileage, not-maintained motor have caused a lot of riders to park their bikes 'in the backyard under a tarp' due to hard-to-start problems that nothing they do seems to fix.
1978 kz1000 A2 with Kerker
1980 Z1 Classic with Kerker

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 11 Mar 2011 13:12 #437079

  • Jonny
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I can't add much in the way of good 'cheap and easy' advice to this thread. TeK9ine helped me out big time last year when I was having no start problems.

A casual inspection with a multimeter and some sandpaper, increased my 'to coil' power by about a 1 volt, and got my hazards working again. Cost = $0, with some notable improvement in ease of starting.

When things continued to plague me, I finally followed the advice I had seen in so very many other threads. Get a DYNA, and some shiny new green Dyna coils, and be damned with the mechanical setup. Now, I know that will not help in any way if the problem is valve clearances on a cold engine, or anything mechanical at all. However, living in southern Ontario, I'll bet dimes to dollars we are colder here most of the time. And since the swap to the Dyna, my '78 650 goes on 2-3 kicks most days. Maybe a few more when the temperature is in the 5-10 degree celcius range.Best money I've spent on the bike since I bought it.

Jon
'78 KZ 650C2 'Lila'
'71 Norton Commando 750 'Eadie'

St. Catharines, ON (Mostly, anyway...)

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 11 Mar 2011 13:51 #437085

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The stock ignition coils even when new were maginal in putting out a good spark, add years of vibration & heat, and it's time for new coils & sparkplug wires.
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 11 Mar 2011 14:36 #437103

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And:

Cleaning Motorcycle Electrics

Get some of the De-Oxit electrical contact cleaner and figure on spending a good day going from the front of the bike to the back. It’s a plastic safe cleaner/preservative. www.deoxit.com is their website.

On the older Kawasaki's, a majority of electrical connectors are inside the headlight housing requiring removal of the headlight, then the fun begins.

Do one set of electrical connectors at a time to avoid mixing up what connects to where. Usually disconnecting, spraying with De-Oxit and reconnecting is about all you'll need.

However, when encountering the green crud of corrosion, a brass wire brush may be needed on the pins you can reach.
Some 400-600 grit wet and dry sandpaper strips rolled into a tube should reach the male and female pins in the more difficult to clean connectors.

Smoker’s pipe cleaners, cotton swabs and wooden toothpicks work as cleaning aids.

Really small electrical connectors may require the use of a welders tip cleaning tool assortment.

Most pins in the connectors are coated with a thin plating of tin, and others may be nothing more than copper or brass.

If moisture is added, the resulting corrosion lowers the voltage/current being carried causing dim lights, slow engine cranking, slow turn signal responce and lower input voltage to the ignition coils resulting in weak spark.

The left and right handlebar switch pods will need attention too as they have circuit functions like turn, horn, run/stop, and start.

Usually a spritz or two with actuation of the switch is about all needed for these switches unless corrosion is detected and then careful disassembly is required.

The ignition switch may or may be not sealed to allow spraying the internal contacts. I urge caution if attempting to open this up as springs, and ball bearings may fly out never to be seen again!

If your bike has the older style glass tubed fuses, I suggest replacing them as vibration can cause internal failure. AGX is the type used, and most auto parts stores can get them for you.

Clean the fuse holder clips, looking for signs of overheating(discolored insulation, signs of melting),
I use metal polish on a cotton swab, followed by spraying another clean swab with the De-Oxit and then rubbing the inside of the fuse clip.

Each "Bullet Connector" will have to be sprayed to ensure good connectivity, especially the ones going to the energizing coil of the starter solenoid.

The alternator output “Bullet Connectors” are usually behind the engine sprocket cover and will need inspecting and cleaning too.

The turn signal light sockets will benefit from a spritz from the contact cleaner along with the tail light/brake light socket.

Some brake light switches can be sprayed on the actuating rod, with the spray running down inside to the electrical contacts, others may be sealed requiring replacement if the switch is intermittent in operation.

I think I've covered about all of the electrical systems on the bike.........

Electrical Connectors, Wire, And supplies
www.easternbeaver.com
www.vintageconnections.com
www.z1enterprises.com/catalog.aspx?pid=KPEL1
www.vehicle-wiring-products.eu
www.electricalconnection.com
www.electricalconnection.com/electrical-components/hitachi.htm
www.pbase.com/mainecruising/wire_termination&page=1
www.crowbarelectricalparts.com/butt_connectors.htm
www.ratwell.com/technical/Terminals.html
www.economycycle.com/servlet/the-Bullet-...lectrical/Categories
www.surplussales.com/SolderlessTerminals/WireTerminals-3.html
www.findtape.com/shop/product.aspx?id=32...&width=1436&height=0
1982 GPZ1100 B2
General Dynamics/Convair 1983-1993
GLCM BGM-109 Tomahawk, AGM-129A Advanced Cruise Missile (ACM)

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How do I make my cold starter KZ650 Start faster 16 Mar 2011 22:51 #438489

  • jnymdnyt
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Thanks again for the load of information. I haven't touched the bike yet because I was busy with work the past couple of days but I will surely need to go over the electrical and valve timing because when I started the bike today it started to missfire and stall whenever I take off. Bad fuel (from sitting) or ???. I don't know but will get to it this weekend.

The nightmare continues...
John Elago
San Francisco, CA.
1978 KZ650

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