Very hard to Start - Cold

dannyg40 wrote:
Sometimes I get lucky and put the choke on fully, hold the throttle open a little and crank, and the bike will start. [/quote]
The choke system doesn't work properly if you hold the throttle open.

dannyg40 wrote:
The headlight dims on the compression stroke while cranking so I know I dont have the full cranking Amps on the battery. [/quote]
Which also means the voltage to the coil is being starved while you are cranking.

dannyg40 wrote:
And the plugs being carboned... could that just be from me not riding it enough since the plugs been put in or is it possibly a weak spark problem ?

Thanks[/quote]
If it is black sooty carbon, it means the engine is running too rich.

Post edited by: bountyhunter, at: 2008/01/17 17:14

Compression tested? Valve clearances checked?

Bountyhunter wrote:
"If it is black sooty carbon, it means the engine is running too rich."


Not necessarily. Plugs can be sooted up if the bike is running real lean. Soot might indicate a rich mixture but most of the time, it indicates poor combustion. It has already been suggested that this fella check his compression and valve clearances. That is a sure cause of incomplete combustion. Also, poor coil voltage means poor spark and that will surely foul plugs as fast as any cause. This is the reason why we have tech articles on both subjects on our website under wg's Tech Stuff Index. Last, filthy air filter? No air getting through the air filter will cause sooty/fouled plugs.

We probably lose business by helping folks understand the reasons for sooty plugs... probably 75 percent of the sooty plug bikes out there are due to the reasons I noted and not jetting.

As far as starting these bikes, they generally should have the choke pulled open and the throttle left closed. Opening the throttle slows air speed and increases air volume and leans the starting mixture. One problem with an enrichener starter circuit is that it is basically on or off... there isn't much in the way of adjustment. The engine WILL race to 3 or 4 K rpm... you have to put up with this until the carbs fill fully and the bike warms slightly... you can then push the choke off a tad and will have to feel the correct spot to keep the idle at about 2 - 2.5 K rpm until it warms to the point where you can turn it off. If it is real cold, it helps to let the bike warm a bit more when the choke is all the way off and perhaps jack the idle up a tad with the idle knob to 2K rpm for a fast idle. The 34s warm more slowly than smaller round slide carbs because of venturi air speed, I suspect, giving them a bit of a cold blooded nature. Larger pilot jets or pilot (idle) mixture adjustment can help in the winter but you run the risk of plug fouling if you let the bike warm too long with larger than normal pilot jets.

Dannyg40 likely needs to clean his enrichener circuit probably as it likely isn't working as it should.

I'm having the same problem. It seems there are a lot of people who have this cold-blooded issue. Perhaps there should be a sticky on just this subject.
We know about the choke circuit needing to be clean (which is easier said than done) and the importance of a strong battery and 12+ volts at the coil. What else?
Does valve adjustment play a role? Or air screw adjustment? Jetting?
I'm in the same boat as dannyg40. Sometimes I just give up and put the battery on the charger and try again the next day. Very Frustrating.

Thanks wiredgeorge,
Bike sat for a week so while I was changing the garage door lock that keeps freezing on me I got the bike started and warmed her up. I havent changed the battery yet but did a test right before I attempted to start the bike.

Hooked up a voltmeter and got 12.2 volts...
Cranking dropped to 9.0 volts......

Bike cranked for 7 seconds and then the starter kinda made a funny "clank" so I let the button go. Hit it again and it started with full choke (enricher) and no throttle. It seems to do that everytime just before it "fires and starts".

I know the battery is weak and it will most likely start faster with a new once since Im starting to understand that the slightly higher cranking RPM to the starter from the battery would draw fuel into the engine a little faster by creating a higher venturi pressure to get the enriched mixture to the cylinders a little quicker. The 2 indents in the enricher valve can throw people off. Like any other engine you have to listen to it and get the "feel" of when to start pushing the enricher in as the engine warms. The way the enricher works compared to a normal choke is 2 slightly different things.

The valves.....
I know they will need adjusting. Im sure a lot of these bikes that sat with low milage in good original condition most likely never had any valve adjustments done to them.

Air filter...
When I got the bike I took it out and someone somewhere put a K&N filter in the bike. I cleaned it but I know sometimes a higher flowing air filter can lean out a motor sometimes.

Its very cold here in Chicago now but I figure by end of Feb. very early March I will be

replacing the battery
adjusting the valves
4 into 1 pipe & rejetting

and if still needed

.....cleaning the carbs

Im was suspecting a slightly lean condition because the 1st time I couldnt start the bike I tried starting the bike till the battery went real low and I pulled the plugs and they were abnormally dry for having the "enricher" fully on.....

But then again the battery might not be cranking the bike fast enough to suck the fuel in there fast enough to "fire".

I replaced my regulator and Stator when I got it due to a non-charging issue when I got the bike, last step is a new battery....

Post edited by: dannyg40, at: 2008/01/18 19:16

Post edited by: dannyg40, at: 2008/01/18 19:19

Hey Dannyg40 any results to report?

ThatGPzGuy wrote:

Hey Dannyg40 any results to report?

Sorry for the delay in replying,
Been away working overtime quite a bit.
No good news yet. I would come from work and maybe once or twice a week I would start the bike and warm it up. Didnt give me to many problems, cranked for a little while but started. Yesterday I came from work and tried to start it and it just cranked itself to death. I have some shopping to do and I have a little extra cash from overtime so I think Im going to get the battery today and fill it and charge it real good and take it from there. It will probably be a few weeks still before I get around to doing the valve adjustment.

The advice above is outstanding...

Whenever I hear about dry black sooty plugs and difficulty starting it reminds me of my days before I did the WG coil re-powering mod.

Bang-for-the-buck, you can't beat this $10 mod. Do it, get a new fully charged battery and you may get so bussy riding that you have no time for other mods...

The head light/stater lock out mod is just as easy to do and could be done at the same time. Let me know if you need my diagram (for a 650-B1) for both mods and I can re-post.

You are getting real close to a great riding season. Best of success.

Following up on this old post......

Been away for a while but I did put a new battery in the bike about 3 weeks ago. Weather here is terrible for the end of March in Chicago.

Anyway,
The brand new battery makes a big difference in starting. If I let it sit for a week and start it cold, it still cranks for about 6-10 seconds but she does start everytime now. IF the weather ever warms up here I will do the valve adjustment and possibly clean the carbs to make sure she is ready to go all summer long.

Just a thought, but it does sound like there is low fuel in float chambers. I have a similar problem if the bike has been standing for some time. Turn the petcock to "pri" position for about 10 seconds before hitting the start button. This will fill the carbs before trying to start. If they are empty the engine cranking is first trying to fill the carbs using engine vacuum on the petcock before it can fire up.