Very hard to Start - Cold

I know there are a lot of topics on the cold starting issue, but mine is driving me nuts. Its cold here in Chicago , but I been basically having the same problem with the bike since I got it last August even when it was warm. The bike is a real pain to start cold. I know I need a new battery cause the previous owner put a new one in but failed to fill the cells to the fill marks on the battery case like they should be. He had installed new plugs just before I picked up the bike. Here is the problem....

When the bike is cold, no matter what position I put the choke "or enricher" on, the bike is a real pain to start. Sometimes I get lucky and put the choke on fully, hold the throttle open a little and crank, and the bike will start. Most of the time I have to hit it with a shot of starting fluid to get it to fire. I hate doing it because the motor makes a few clanking sounds with the either so Im trying to avoid it. Its weird because the bike acts like it dont want to fire at all, but then I get lucky and it just fires up after cranking and getting lucky. I pulled the plugs which only have about 100 miles on them and they were showing signs of carbon fouling. I cleaned them up, gapped them, and the same problem persists. Once I do get the bike to start, the enricher and throttle response is great. The bike runs and warms up just fine. I know the battery needs to be replaced, the voltage is there but since the previous owner left the cells pretty much dry, it dont crank like it should. The headlight dims on the compression stroke while cranking so I know I dont have the full cranking Amps on the battery. Im taking the bike to a KZ Specialist near me in the next 2 weeks to have a 4-1 Vance & Hines Pipe installed, rejetted, pods, and valve adjustment done for $600. Hopefully the cold start problem will go away. When I got the bike I drained the oil and there was a ton of gas mixed with the oil so I know it flooded bad when the previous owner had it. Im just wondering......
Since the bike will be re-jetted for the pipes should I just have them rebuil the carbs ? And the plugs being carboned... could that just be from me not riding it enough since the plugs been put in or is it possibly a weak spark problem ?

Thanks

Plugs carboned fouled? Too rich. Pull one out and test fire it while grounded against the block. If it fires all over the place instead of across the gap, throw them away. Fuel in the oil? Float valves are not sealing. Petcock is probably leaking. Rebuild the carbs and the petcock or install an inline shut off valve. Engine clanking whe you use starting fluid? You are using too much. You could bend a rod or bust a piston.

dannyg40 wrote:

... When the bike is cold, no matter what position I put the choke "or enricher" on, the bike is a real pain to start. Sometimes I get lucky and put the choke on fully, hold the throttle open a little and crank, and the bike will start... taking the bike to a KZ Specialist near me in the next 2 weeks to have a 4-1 Vance & Hines Pipe installed, rejetted, pods, and valve adjustment done for $600. Hopefully the cold start problem will go away. When I got the bike I drained the oil and there was a ton of gas mixed with the oil so I know it flooded bad when the previous owner had it. Im just wondering... Since the bike will be re-jetted for the pipes should I just have them rebuil the carbs? ....

hold the throttle open a little and crank -- Should not even touch the throttle when cranking, as the enrichener circuit is designed to operate with zero throttle being applied. This applies when the carbs are "right."

If the $600 includes the price of new V&H 4/1 complete exhaust system (with new copper gaskets), and jets and K&N pods, it might be within reasonable range, but am guessing a maximum of two, maybe three, hours for the work described, even including removal of airbox. Replacement of overbucket shims is a quickie for a "KZ Specialist," as is r/r carbs and re-jetting.

gas mixed with the oil -- probably float needle/seats leaking or possibly leaking or sticking float or possibly obstructed floatbowl overflow circuits. Carbs obviously need more attention than mere rejetting. How much more $$ to rebuild the carbs?

Recommendation -- remove and send the carbs to wiredgeorge. The carbs will come back perfect and properly jetted. Then could have the KZ Specialist install the carbs -- would also consider new carb holders -- and the exhaust system. You can handle the pods .

Just an honest, candid reply, and hoping not to come across as a smarty-pants. Good Luck!

Post edited by: Patton, at: 2008/01/09 20:04

Patton wrote:

Just an honest, candid reply, and hoping not to come across as a smarty-pants. Good Luck! <br><br>Post edited by: Patton, at: 2008/01/09 20:04

No offense taken
Im just leary of the carbs. Me and carb rebuilding dont get along to good sometimes though. I rebuild them and they either work perfect or I end up having to redo them another time to get them right. I havent had any problems since I got the bike with the fuel flooding so much it gets in the oil. Im not sure what or how it happened with the previous owner. I will check the spark though and see how thats acting. Im very tempted to do the work myself since It would give me a chance to get more familiar with the motor but its just so darn cold here yet in Chicago to be in the garage. Sending the carbs to WG is also a good idea.

Try this. choke full on kick it thru with kick starter about 2 times then turn key on and kick it agin like ya mean it and it should fire right off.when using the electric start you are pulling voltage away from the ingition which only aggravates the problem.

76 LTD,
No kick start on the 82's. Yesterday I started the bike with no throtle choke fully on. (enricher). Cranked for about 5 seconds and fired up. I really think the mod that cuts the lights off when cranking would help greatly. I know for sure I need a battery but Im going to check the voltage drop when cranking anyway. I notcie that if the battery isnt 100% fully charged the bike is a pain to start initialy. Once it starts its fine after that and will fire on the first tap of the starter button. I been looking through the service manual but I need to look a little deeper and understand just exactly how the "enricher" works and whats involved with the linkage assembly.

The enricher works by opening a small passage way that directs raw unmetered fuel into the throttle bore.have you checked voltage to coils a weak spark could cause some of your problem.or it could be it just takes a while for the engine to draw the fuel into the cylinders.

REPLACE THE BATTERY! I have an 82 honda that had the same problem, wouldnt start for crap. Knew the battery was weak, got a new one, Made sure i charged it fully, and now it starts within 5 seconds.

REPLACE THE BATTERY! I have an 82 honda that had the same problem, wouldnt start for crap. Knew the battery was weak, got a new one, Made sure i charged it fully, and now it starts within 5 seconds.

violentvintagecycles,
Im going to go tomorrow and get the battery for sure. Today the bike acted up again. 1 day it starts fine, next day takes 10 - 15 seconds of cranking.

LUK (Let us know)
My bike is doing the exact same thing and it is driving me crazy. Already cleaned the carbs six ways from Sunday.
Good luck.

Didnt get the new battery yet......
Was planning on it Sunday that passed but I had got really bad stomach flu over Saturday night and was sick all week so far. If I feel better this weekend I will get a battery and start from there. I havent been in the garage other than to go to the doctor and for a CAT Scan for my stomach acting up. I really hope its not going to be "one of them years" where everything goes wrong.